Show Notes
What is cybernetics, and why does it matter now than ever? In this episode, Jen and Producer Nico sit down with Dr Amy McLennan, a medical anthropologist and systems thinker at ANU School of Cybernetics, for a conversation about cybernetics, leadership, and why the smartest way to understand technology is to stop treating it like a standalone thing. Cybernetics helps us look at tech feedback loops, relationships, and assumptions that shape what happens next. Amy explains why tech is really a systems enabler; and why the real work is in understanding the people, intentions, and power dynamics around it. From a speculative factory called Frank, to the egg oversupply during COVID, this episode shows how small examples can reveal big truths about how systems behave when the world changes fast. You’ll also hear why binary thinking gets us nowhere, why trust needs to be earned, and why the most useful leadership questions are the ones that surface what’s missing, what’s assumed, and what might break when the system is under pressure. For anyone leading teams, shaping culture, or making decisions in a complex environment, this one is a smart place to start. If you love this episode, subscribe, leave a star rating, and give us a quick review. It helps more people find the show and supports our mission to share stories from leaders shaping tomorrow’s health, tech, and inclusion... like Amy McLennan, Victor Dominello, Cindy Gallop, Ida Tin and more. Find out more about the books, people, and ideas in this episode Frank Makes a Factory by Josh Noble and Simona Dango: A piece of speculative fiction Amy uses to show how systems can be shaped by hidden assumptions. Invisible Women: Data Bias in a World Designed for Men by (absolute icon) Caroline Criado Perez: referenced by Jen in the discussion about women being left out of data and design. American Sirens by Kevin Hazzard: the book Amy mentions about the Freedom House Ambulance Service and the roots of modern emergency medicine. Sir Ken Robinson: Jen's reference (and one of her heroes) in the discussion about education systems, creativity, and industrial style thinking. Clue and Ida Tin: Jen mentions them as an example of women’s health tech that is thoughtful about data and privacy. (You can hear Ida Tin in Season One of Flip the Focus, she's incredible.) David Ogilvy: Jen references as an example of starting from human insight. Watson: Producer Nico mentions this in the AI history discussion as part of the longer arc of machine learning and pattern recognition.
More from Flip the Focus
What advice would you give younger you if you started over? What would you love to change about your industry? Whose name should we all be shouting? These are the big 3 questions we ask every guest on Flip the Focus. Their answers get real deep, real fast...
How can we keep people at the centre of tech, and build products that are safe by design instead of fixed after harm is done? Jen and Producer Nico sit down with Nakshathra Suresh, cyber criminologist, UNSW academic and co-founder of Eiris, to talk about what happens when AI blurs the line between our online and offline lives. Nakshathra works with startups, universities and businesses to build with safety, inclusion and human-centred design. She talks about why critical thinking is a bare minimum skill, and why that bar should rise with every tool we use. You'll hear Nakshathra share how getting her first social media account at 10 shaped her sense of self, and why she believes the problem isn't tech alone, it's the humans who interact with it. She explains the fine line between access and dependence with AI, how generative AI is collapsing the barrier between online and offline, and why people hand over intimate details to tools that may be collecting them. She also unpacks how AI supercharges romance scams, and what it means when your social media can be used to map your whole life. Nakshathra also tells the story of founders who assume the compliance team will handle privacy, and what happens when she asks how they're using AI. She makes the case for safety by design, points to the free eSafety Commissioner framework, and explains why you don't need a trust and safety team to think like a trust and safety person. Plus: why some cybercrime laws are older than the technology they now cover, and why privacy policies don't need to be 15 pages long. If you love this episode, subscribe, leave a star rating and give us a quick review. It helps more people find the show and supports our mission to share stories from leaders shaping tomorrow's tech, startups and impact-led innovation: like Brittany Fox, Amy McLennan, Victor Dominello, Cindy Gallop, Ida Tin and more
What advice would you give younger you if you started over? What would you love to change about your industry? Whose name should we all be shouting? These are the big 3 questions we ask every guest on Flip the Focus. Their answers get real deep, real fast...
What happens when the data shaping our digital lives forgets the humans behind it? In this episode of Flip the Focus, Jen and Producer Nico sit down with Dr Nadia Morozova, Chief Analytics and Insights Officer at Enriched Insights, to talk about the human side of data, the ethics of AI and why the most powerful insights come from understanding people, not just patterns. Nadia talks about the moment she realised data had a human face; moving from psychology and consumer research into roles at major brands like TikTok and Procter & Gamble; and the study that changed how advertisers thought about the platform. From the building blocks of good data: representation, quality and scalability, to underrepresented communities in research, we get into the need for data to reflect today’s reality to predict tomorrow’s. And the key consideration of the age: why frameworks and ethical baselines need to be in place before any AI model is built. In a world where human data is under threat at a National level - OpenAI hacking Australia’s Medicare systems, anyone…? Dr Nadia offers a simple but powerful shift: move the conversation from what technology can do to what humans need. Because the most sophisticated AI is only valuable when it helps us understand human needs, aspirations and challenges more clearly. If you love this episode, subscribe, leave a star rating and give us a quick review. It helps more people find the show and supports our mission to share honest stories from founders, funders and leaders asking big questions about tech, work and what comes next.
What advice would you give younger you if you started over? What would you love to change about your industry? Whose name should we all be shouting? These are the big 3 questions we ask every guest on Flip the Focus. Their answers get real deep, real fast...