Show Notes
Clare Heath-McIvor is the daughter of the leader of the City Builders Church, an organisation that she and others who know it feel confident fits the definition of a cult. Her marriage was arranged within the church to Patrick McIvor, a man who had survived gay conversion therapy. Since leaving, the now-happily-separated pair have become involved in a number of social justice issues, including the current Victorian Parliamentary Inquiry into the recruitment methods and impacts of cults and organised fringe groups, and Patrick's work was crucial to the ban on conversion therapy practices in Victoria.
Links: Inquiry into the recruitment methods and impacts of cults and organised fringe groups — Parliament of Victoria, open for submissions until 31 July 2025 and due to deliver findings in September 2026 Clare Heath-McIvor's Linktree with her Substack, TikTok, Twitter and more Unchurchable podcast Caring church or crazy cult? The extreme religion praying for power — 60 Minutes Australia, 20 November 2022 Victorian Cult Survivors Network — Facebook group
You can support us on Patreon. Sarah Steel's book Do As I Say is available on audiobook.
If you have been personally affected by involvement in a cult, or would like to support those who have been, you can find support with or donate to Cult Information and Family Support if you’re in Australia (via www.cifs.org.au), and you can find resources outside of Australia with the International Cultic Studies Association (via www.icsahome.com). Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.
More from Let's Talk About Sects
The Victorian Legislative Assembly Legal and Social Issues Committee has published their final reports from the Parliamentary Inquiry into the recruitment methods and impacts of cults and organised fringe groups, which commenced in April 2025. There are two parts, Volume 1: ‘Crossing the line’ and Volume 2: ‘In their words’. They set out 39 Recommendations which the Victorian Government now has six months to respond to. In this interview episode, lead author of the Beyond Belief submission and advocate Patrick McIvor shares his insights into the landmark report which includes a recommendation of criminalising group-based coercive control, and what the next steps will be.
In a sleepy Canberra suburb, Bek Condello was raised in a strict patriarchal Pentecostal movement. The influence of the Geelong Revival Centre extended deeply into the lives of the congregation, promoting discipline and dictating how girls and women behaved, who they socialised with and who they would marry. After finding her way out and discovering her own identity, Bek has written a memoir, out on 14 July, called Can You Handle a Girl Like Me. Through her story she hopes she can inspire others to rebuild and thrive after deep loss.
Carol Merchasin is the newly appointed President of the International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA). Drawing on decades of experience in law, investigations, and survivor advocacy, Carol has led inquiries into allegations of misconduct within prominent spiritual and religious organisations and has worked extensively with survivors of coercive control and abuse. Through her legal practice, public education efforts, and leadership at ICSA, she has become a leading voice on cultic abuse, human trafficking, labour exploitation, and the protection of vulnerable individuals within high-control environments.
Hoyt Richards spent over two decades in Eternal Values, after first meeting the man who called himself Frederick von Mierers on a beach at the age of 16. Bring Me the Beauties: A Model Cult, out now on HBO Max with episodes releasing weekly, explores Hoyts’ journey alongside other actors and models of the era, and Hoyt has spent the years since his exit dedicated to educating people about the red flags to watch out for so that they don’t ever have to go through the experience that he did.
When we talk about cults, we tend to picture the ones that make headlines: isolated compounds, charismatic leaders, dramatic exits. But what about the church down the street? The one with the worship band and the small groups and the Instagram presence? In this episode, Sam Sellers and Elise Heerde, co-founders of the Religious Trauma Collective, talk about what happens when coercive control operates inside institutions that look, from the outside, like ordinary community. We also touch on evangelical support for Trump in the USA, and how Australia is not immune from those who would like to see a theocracy here.