Show Notes
Over the past several decades, asset management has transformed from a small industry with a few experts competing against a majority of amateurs in the market to a market saturated with well-equipped and highly resourced experts competing against each other.
When I think about my pantheon of all-time great investment thinkers and writers, our guest today stands out as one of the industry's legends. Charley Ellis has played the most significant role in how I think about the investment industry, and I can't think of anyone better to talk about the industry's evolution.
Dr. Charles D. Ellis is the founder and former managing partner of Greenwich Associates, an international consultancy where he advised large institutional investors, foundations, and government organizations in more than 130 financial markets across the globe. Through that lens, he has been a keen observer of what works in organizations and markets for the last half-century. For nine years, Charley was chair of the Investment Committee at Yale, his alma mater, where he worked closely with its legendary Chief Investment Officer, David Swensen. He also served as a director of the Vanguard Group from 2001 to 2009. Charlie is a Harvard Business School graduate and has taught advanced investing courses at both Yale and Harvard. The CFA Institute recognized him as one of the twelve leading contributors to the investment profession, and along the way, Charlie has published nineteen books.
In this episode, Tano, Charley, and I discuss what inspired him to found Greenwich Associates, what goes into identifying the right questions to ask, how the industry has shifted from a winner's game to a loser's game, the massive changes in the asset management industry since the founding of Greenwich Associates, lessons from the Yale endowment model, Charley's book recommendations, and so much more!
Key Topics:
Welcome Charley to the show (1:13) How Charley's early experience at Donaldson, Lufkin & Jenrette inspired the concept for Greenwich Associates (3:07) Structuring research and gathering the right kinds of questions (7:51) How Charley developed a passion for sharing insights with the public at large (10:00) The dual roles of academia and the industry itself in the evolution of the asset management industry (11:46) Simon Ramo and The Loser's Game (13:33) Massive changes in the asset management industry since Charley founded Greenwich Associates (19:07) Why it was much easier for active managers to beat the market in the early days of the industry (25:03) Understanding the relentless pace of competition (29:35) The importance of actively determining the right investment strategy for you (32:44) Charley's perspective on the legacy of Vanguard's Jack Bogle (37:26) Why Charley cites John Neff as the best active manager of his time (43:27) David Swenson's capacity for innovative thinking (46:51) Lessons from the Yale endowment model (51:02) Highlights from Charley's book, Capital (58:38) Essential elements of creating and perpetuating a great culture (1:00:06) Why the willingness to address problems head-on is crucial in sustaining excellence (1:02:30) Charlie's excitement about our education system (1:06:19) Which overlooked issue does Charlie wish garnered more attention? (1:07:07) Charley's book recommendations (1:12:09) And much more!
Mentioned in this Episode:
Charley Ellis' Books Figuring It Out: Sixty Years of Answering Investors' Most Important Questions Inside Vanguard: Leadership Secrets From the Company That Continues to Rewrite the Rules of the Investing Business Winning the Loser's Game: Timeless Strategies for Successful Investing Capital: The Story of Long-Term Investment Excellence What It Takes: Seven Secrets of Success from the World's Greatest Professional Firms
Charley Ellis' Articles The Loser's Game In Defense of Active Investing
Burton G. Malkiel's Book | A Random Walk Down Wall Street: The Best Investment Guide That M
More from Value Investing with Legends
In this episode, Michael Mauboussin welcomes Eddie Perkin, former Chief Investment Officer at Eaton Vance and Goldman Sachs Asset Management, to discuss the principles behind better investment decision-making. Eddie shares how his early experiences shaped his investment philosophy before examining quality value investing, behavioral biases, and the importance of process over outcomes. The conversation explores leadership, collaborative conflict, confirmation bias, portfolio construction, selling discipline, and how investment organizations can create environments that encourage independent thinking. Eddie also reflects on the future of investing, the opportunities created by technological change, and the books and ideas that continue to influence his thinking—and much more!
In this episode, hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin welcome Django Davidson, Partner and Portfolio Manager at Hosking Partners, for a discussion of the capital cycle approach to investing. Django shares how his unconventional upbringing, experience covering banks during the Global Financial Crisis, and early exposure to Warren Buffett's letters shaped his investment philosophy. The conversation explores the origins of the capital cycle framework, how investors can identify industries experiencing excessive capital formation or capital scarcity, and why patience and long-term capital are essential to capturing opportunities. They also examine current AI investment trends, the evolution of the semiconductor industry, Japan's corporate reforms, and several real-world investment case studies, including Micron Technology and Saga. The discussion concludes with reflections on industrial resilience, supply chains, and book recommendations—and much more!
Jim Flynn is the Managing Partner of Deerfield Management, a healthcare-focused investment firm overseeing approximately $16 billion in assets. In this episode, hosts Michael Mauboussin and Tano Santos speak with Jim about his path from studying biology and economics to leading one of the industry's most distinctive healthcare investment platforms. Jim explains how Deerfield evolved from a public-equity-focused firm into an organization spanning public markets, private investments, venture creation, drug development, data science, and philanthropy. The conversation examines the challenges of healthcare investing, the importance of probabilistic thinking, the role of artificial intelligence in healthcare delivery and drug discovery, and Deerfield's approach to identifying opportunities across the healthcare ecosystem. Jim also shares insights on senior housing, healthcare innovation, regulatory dynamics, and the skills required for the next generation of healthcare investors, and much more!
In this episode, hosts Tano Santos and Michael Mauboussin speak with Matthew Fine, portfolio manager at Third Avenue Management, about his path into investing and the firm's value-driven philosophy. Matthew reflects on lessons from early experiences like the Argentine crisis and explains how balance sheet strength and long-term thinking shape investment decisions. The conversation examines global opportunities across Europe, Japan, and commodities, along with the role of resource conversion in value creation. They also discuss market structure shifts, portfolio resilience during crises, and the challenges of identifying mispriced assets in a changing investment landscape and much more!
In this episode, hosts Michael Mauboussin and Tano Santos speak with Jenny Harrington, CEO of Gilman Hill Asset Management, about her approach to dividend-focused investing. Jenny shares her journey from early internships to portfolio management and explains how her strategy targets steady income through high-quality dividend-paying companies. The discussion examines risk management through cash flow, valuation discipline, and behavioral considerations that influence investor outcomes. Jenny also outlines her screening process, portfolio construction, and how she evaluates dividend sustainability. The conversation touches on lessons from market cycles, the role of communication in investing, and how technological changes may shape future opportunities and risks and much more!