CULTS: Lori Vallow Daybell, NXIVM & the Zizians Part 3

The Conjuring universe keeps asking one question: why do we need the devil to have done it?

How does James Wan turn an ordinary family home into the scariest place in the movie, and why does it work on audiences who think they've seen everything?

Why would members of the Order of the Solar Temple kill a three-month-old baby they had never met? ⚠️ Trigger warning: This episode includes discussions of murder, ritual killing, the murder of an infant and of children, mass death, cult trauma and coercive control. Listener discretion is advised. In 1994 the Order of the Solar Temple, led by Joseph Di Mambro and Luc Jouret, killed a baby in Morin-Heights, Quebec because his name made him the Antichrist, then left 53 dead across Switzerland and Canada. Cults Part 2 follows the same question through Adolfo Constanzo's Narcosatánicos in Matamoros, Mexico and Charles Manson's Family in Los Angeles.

Have you ever left a relationship more confused about yourself than about the person you were with? ⚠️ Trigger warning: This episode includes discussions of emotional abuse, coercive control, gaslighting and intimate partner violence. Listener discretion is advised. Therapists Shannon and Cathy open Season 9 with the question everyone asks and almost nobody asks clinically: what does it actually mean to call someone a psychopath, and what does it feel like to be in a relationship with one? This is not a diagnostic checklist for your partner. It is a map of a pattern, from the inside. IN THIS EPISODE: - Why psychopathy is not a DSM diagnosis, and what antisocial personality disorder actually covers - Robert Hare and the PCL-R, the Hare Psychopathy Checklist Revised - Factor 1, the interpersonal and affective traits: glibness, charm, grandiosity, shallow affect, no remorse - Factor 2, the antisocial lifestyle traits: need for stimulation, impulsivity, irresponsibility, early behavioral patterns - Prevalence: under 1% of the general population, roughly 25% of incarcerated populations - Subclinical or "successful" psychopathy, and Snakes in Suits by Paul Babiak and Robert Hare - Why corporate, legal, political and even mental health environments show elevated rates - The honeymoon phase: love bombing, mirroring and future faking - Why mirroring works, and why it is a performance rather than recognition - The shift: devaluation, intermittent reinforcement, gaslighting and isolation - The slot machine effect, and why unpredictable reward builds anxious attachment - What gaslighting actually is, and how "you should get some therapy" gets weaponized - Why an outsider can see it and the person inside cannot - Trauma bonding as a neurobiological response, not a weakness - Why couples therapy is contraindicated, and what to ask a couple's therapist before you start - Safety planning, and why leaving is the most dangerous period even without physical violence - Trauma informed care, somatic approaches, trauma focused CBT and EMDR - Karin Huffer's work on Legal Abuse Syndrome, and litigation as a tool of control - The closing thought: the grief is real, even though the relationship wasn't CLINICAL TERMS: psychopathy, antisocial personality disorder, PCL-R, Hare Psychopathy Checklist, narcissism, sociopathy, coercive control, love bombing, mirroring, future faking, devaluation, intermittent reinforcement, gaslighting, isolation, triangulation, trauma bonding, anxious attachment, betrayal trauma, plausible deniability, safety planning, EMDR RELATED EPISODES: Stalking, Surveillance and Coercive Control Parts 1 and 2 · How to Identify a Narcissist · Spiritual Narcissism: Twin Flames on Fire · CULTS: Heaven's Gate, the Zizians and Jonestown Two licensed therapists, one forensic psychologist, one clinical LMFT, take apart the minds behind the crimes. 🎧 LISTEN TO THE FULL PODCAST APPLE PODCASTS: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/terror-talk-true-crime-serial-killers-and-horror/id1435529687 SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/07JEm5Qm7cohukkEUOYt7P PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/cw/terrortalk 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/terrortalkpodcast/ 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/newterrortalkpodcast 🎵 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dark.psychology.girls?_r=18_t=ZT-99iWlxm05in 🎶 Music by Mannequin Uprising

Six documentaries, two therapists, and one question running under all of them: what does the camera do to a case? Shannon takes Betrayal: Dirty Secrets, EDP445: The Sick Mind, and Joe Berlinger's Conversations with a Killer: The Charles Manson Tapes. Cathy takes The Hillside Strangler, Maternal Instinct, and The Crash. ⚠️ Trigger warning: This episode includes discussions of child predation, violence against a pregnant woman, sexual assault and murder. Listener discretion is advised. SHANNON'S THREE Betrayal: Dirty Secrets (Hulu). Colorado Springs police officer Joel Kern held a decorated career and a family man image while running a secret sexual double life with roughly fifty people, using his badge and his schedule as cover. His wife Karoline found out while their daughter was hospitalized. He retired before he could be fired, kept his pension, and was never charged. EDP445: The Sick Mind. Bryant Moreland, a YouTube sports commentator with millions of subscribers, caught in a sting run by the vigilante group Predator Poachers. The clinical ground here is parasocial attachment, predatory persona construction, and the uncomfortable question of what vigilante predator catching actually accomplishes. Conversations with a Killer: The Charles Manson Tapes (Netflix). Berlinger's fifth and final entry, built from 137 previously unheard prison phone calls Manson made to a retired detective across the last nine years of his life. Survivors are centered: Dianne Lake, Catherine Share, Stephanie Schram. One detail stays with you. Manson learned his mind control technique from Dale Carnegie. CATHY'S THREE The Hillside Strangler (MGM+). Kenneth Bianchi and Angelo Buono killed ten women and girls across Los Angeles in 1977 and 1978. The first on camera interview with Bianchi, and the first-time lead detective Frank Salerno has spoken publicly in over forty years. Bianchi claimed amnesia, submitted to hypnosis, argued his confessions were fabricated, then turned on Buono. Watch how a man relates to his own story across four decades. Maternal Instinct (Netflix). Taylor Parker faked a pregnancy for months, with a silicone belly, false ultrasounds and a gender reveal party, then murdered Reagan Simmons-Hancock, who was thirty-five weeks pregnant. She is the youngest woman on Texas death row. This one is genuinely difficult. The Crash (Netflix). Seventeen-year-old Mackenzie Shirilla drove into a brick building at over a hundred miles an hour, killing her boyfriend and his friend. No skid marks, no braking. Convicted of murder as an adult. All six are streaming now, and the discussion is better if you have already formed an opinion. Two licensed therapists, one forensic psychologist, one clinical LMFT, take apart the minds behind the crimes. 🎧 LISTEN TO THE FULL PODCAST APPLE PODCASTS: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/terror-talk-true-crime-serial-killers-and-horror/id1435529687 SPOTIFY: https://open.spotify.com/show/07JEm5Qm7cohukkEUOYt7P PATREON: https://www.patreon.com/cw/terrortalk 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/terrortalkpodcast/ 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/newterrortalkpodcast 🎵 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@dark.psychology.girls?_r=18_t=ZT-99iWlxm05in 🎶 Music by Mannequin Uprising