Show Notes
In this episode of Disengaged, I'm joined by Jessie Zwaan — VP of People Strategy and Operations at Leapsome and author of Built for People and Purpose and Work — to dig into the gap between the purpose companies advertise and the work people actually live. Jessie's argument cuts against a lot of HR orthodoxy. Most people don't come to work for the company mission, and pretending they do creates a dissonance employees feel but rarely voice — an Emperor's New Clothes problem she traces through the anti-work movement, which she reads as a funhouse mirror held up to HR. Drawing on Joe Pine's experience economy, she places work on a spectrum from service to experience to transformation, and argues most workplaces are experiential, and that this is fine. People are motivated by connection, autonomy, and creativity far more than by mission — so design work around what you can genuinely offer instead of selling a purpose no one believes. What we covered: Work as a product — the three symbiotic products every company runs, and why employee experience behaves like a subscription Pine's experience economy applied to work, illustrated through a cup of coffee, and where most workplaces actually sit Wrzesniewski's job, career, and calling orientations, and why performance doesn't differ across them The purpose gap, and how to close it without overreaching The anti-work movement as a funhouse mirror of HR Leveling guides and job architecture as systems of control — cognitive closure, familiarity bias, and why bare-bones wins Whether AI will fix decision-making and performance management, and why the answer is mostly no The T-shaped employee, and applying deep expertise broadly in an AI era The perception of laziness across generations (Dickens wrote fifteen novels and never worked afternoons), and the shift from individual to collective measurement People Jessie Zwaan — author of Built for People and Purpose and Work Dart Lindsley — host of Work for Humans Joe Pine — the experience economy Amy Wrzesniewski — job, career, and calling Peter Fader — author of The Customer Base Audit Stephan Meier — employee segmentation Arie Kruglanski — need for cognitive closure Rensis Likert — participative management Andy Whitlock — The Human Half Huw Slater — Oli Teresa Amabile — the progress principle Barry Schwartz — critique of rational choice Books Purpose and Work — Jessie Zwaan Built for People — Jessie Zwaan What Pay Costs — James Alexander Seechurn The Customer Base Audit — Peter Fader Come Up for Air — Nick Sonnenberg Organisations Leapsome — where Jessie leads people strategy Intuit — finding purpose within a constrained mission The Human Half — Andy Whitlock's consultancy Oli — Huw Slater's company Modern People Leader — collaborators on Jessie's Substack, PL Build
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