Beyond Atheism Podcast

Episode 35: A Religious History of American Secularism, with Dr. Leigh Eric Schmidt

Beyond Atheism Podcast

Show Notes

In this episode, we are joined by Leigh Eric Schmidt, the Edward C. Mallinckrodt Distinguished University Professor in the Humanities at Washington University in St. Louis, and the author of a new book, The Church of Saint Thomas Paine: A Religious History of American Secularism. In a far ranging discussion we learn why after his death the eighteenth-century radical Thomas Paine went from disgraced Founding Father to the patron saint of the freethought movement. As the freethought movement in the early United States began to form it was guided not only by Paine's words, but also by quests for his literal bones. Leigh highlights how much early secularists were driven by the desire to make new religions and how a landmark court ruling would accidentally make secular humanists a Reagan-era bogeyman. We also learn whether a true “Painite” can believe in an afterlife or work for US Immigration and Customs Enforcement. In the bonus section, available exclusively to supporters of Patreon, we ask Leigh whether he has ever attended an “atheist church,” and if he thinks atheists’ natural independent streak dooms the prospect of creating long-lasting secular institutions. Check out Leigh’s new book, The Church of Saint Thomas Paine: A Religious History of American Secularism: https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691217253/the-church-of-saint-thomas-paine For more on Leigh: https://rap.wustl.edu/people/leigh-e-schmidt/ Nathan recently appeared on the Monday Morning Dullard podcast to talk about atheism. Check it out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVmjk9_mMxY Follow Nathan on Twitter: https://twitter.com/NathGAlexander Nathan’s website: https://www.nathangalexander.com/ If you find the podcast valuable and want to support it, check out our Patreon page, where you will also find bonus content: https://www.patreon.com/beyond_atheism We are grateful for every contribution.

More from Beyond Atheism Podcast

Feb 23, 2026

Faith seems to have been a part of the human experience for as long as we have existed. But what would happen if all belief in God disappeared over night? How would the behavior of believers change after their faith was stripped away? This is the concept that Joseph Lyttleton’s newest novel, The Awakening, sets out to explore. We talk to Joseph about his latest book, how his upbringing with evangelical religion informs his writing, and how living in ten cities in ten years provided the rich color and detail in his writing. We also find out how a true atheist should feel about religion’s decline and the vandalism of once holy and sacred spaces.

Jul 2, 2025

In this episode, we are joined again by Alastair Lichten, a humanist community builder and the author of the blog, Humanist Dad. We discuss his recent work in community organizing and the importance of creating welcoming, inclusive spaces. Alastair has been giving particular attention to autism and neurodiversity, especially related to humanism. We learn what neurodiversity is, the different shapes it can take, and the research showing links between autistic people and atheism. Alastair also gives us tips about how organizers can make their events more inclusive for neurodivergent people. And we learn whether a true humanist can feel awkward around others.

May 27, 2025

In this episode, we’re joined by Arash Ghajarjazi, a scholar of Iranian Studies at Utrecht University and author of the new book, Remembering Khayyam: Episodes of Unbelief in the Reception Histories of Persian Quatrains. We delve into the history of Iran to discuss the long legacy of secular culture by way of the figure of Omar Khayyam, a Persian poet and polymath from the 11th century. There are plenty of surprises along the way as we learn how religious elites leveraged modern technology to monopolize power, the role Victorian love of poetry had on Iranian culture, and how secular monuments continue to inspire and allow protest in a theocratic country. We also learn whether a true atheist can hide their atheism and if it may prove to be an absolute necessity.

Mar 4, 2025

In this episode, we’re joined by Paul Clark, author of The Omega Course, a coming-of-age novel about guilt, redemption, and loss of faith. We learn about the central plot of the book, where 17-year-old Ross kills another driver in a car accident and seeks to find redemption, initially through the real-life “Alpha Course,” which pushes a conservative approach to Christianity. However, at the same time, Ross also takes a fictional “Omega Course” which presents a more critical perspective about the origins of Christianity and the Bible. In the episode, we talk extensively about the research that went into the novel, with special focus on the actual Alpha Course and what makes it so dreadful, as well as the choice to present this topic through fiction. We also discuss the history of monotheism, the authorship of the Bible, evidence for the historical Jesus, and why it all matters. Paul also explains to us whether or not a true atheist can believe in redemption.

Dec 30, 2024

In this episode, we’re joined by Sarah Ray, the President of the Humanist Society and an Endorsed Humanist Celebrant and Invocator. We learn about how these roles are secularizing, the deep roots they have to humanism, as well as (because we know you are afraid to ask) what exactly humanist celebrants and invocators are. The discussion also includes how the Humanist Society aids the training and professionalization of aspiring chaplains, even those who hold the position in a religious function but have left their faith. Sarah also schools Todd and Nathan on why a “true” humanist would prefer Star Wars to Star Trek.

See all episodes →