The Women of House Music: Martha Wash, Lolleata Holloway, and Smokin Jo (S3 E4)

Hello, my sexy listeners. It's that podcast girl, Cdub, and this is a podcast about house music. Or is it? I've spent years talking about house music. Not just because I like it. Because I believe it changed culture. I've dedicated episodes to Larry Levan. Paradise Garage. Jersey. Chicago. Detroit. The people who built something that was never just about music. They built community. They built belonging. They built rooms where, for a few hours, people could put down whatever they'd been carrying that week and just move. I don't think I realized it at the time, but I wasn't just studying a genre. I was studying relief. Why does a repetitive beat do that to us? Why can one bassline quiet a mind that's been racing all day? Why does a dance floor feel like therapy for people who've never met? I kept asking the historical question. I never once asked the personal one. Why do I keep coming back? ⸻ Then something happened that, on paper, shouldn't have mattered very much. I'm sitting in a Zoom meeting. Camera on, hosting, fourteen faces staring back at me. My son is in another window of his life entirely. He's away at college, buying tickets to see Tame Impala with his friends — his fourth time seeing them, actually, though I wouldn't understand what that meant until much later. I'd mentioned once, months earlier, in passing, that if Tame Impala ever came back through Florida, I'd love to see them. I said it the way you say things you don't expect anyone to remember. He didn't forget. So he didn't just buy his tickets. He added one more. For me. He just thought, Mom would want to be there too. What I didn't know yet — what he and his friends already knew, four shows deep — is that this wasn't just a concert to them. It's a full-body experience. The kind that doesn't just play at you, it moves through you, and it changes something in you a little more each time. I thought I was tagging along to my son's favorite band for a fun night. I had no idea I was about to find out exactly what he already knew. It's funny how life works. Sometimes it doesn't change through some grand event. Sometimes it changes because someone remembered a sentence you'd already forgotten saying, and decided to build a night around it. ⸻ When I walked into that stadium in Tampa, I wasn't looking for meaning. I was a mother standing in a sea of twenty-somethings, next to my son and his best friends, feeling every one of my years and none of them at the same time. If you'd asked me what I expected, I would've talked about the lights. The lasers. Maybe losing my voice singing something I half-knew. Normal concert stuff. Instead, I left asking questions I still haven't fully answered. And that's what we're here to unpack. ⸻ Here's the part that surprised me. I've been chasing a feeling for most of my adult life. I just didn't know that's what I was doing. House music gave me that feeling first. The first few minutes on any dance floor are always the same — you're still aware of yourself, who's watching, whether you're standing right, whether you belong in the room at all. Then the beat keeps going. It doesn't ask anything of you. It doesn't require you to understand it. It just repeats. Again. Again. Again. And somewhere in that repetition, the internal noise gets quieter. The meeting from that morning disappears. The person who said something that stung is forgotten. You're still you. You've just stopped carrying yourself for a while. For years I thought that was the whole magic of music — that it helps us disappear into something collective. ⸻ Then I stood in that arena, surrounded by my son's friends, and Tame Impala started. Kevin walked out, strummed his guitar, and started talking to us like we were the only people in the room. The bass hit differently than anything I'd felt on a dance floor before. House music's low end is steady. Four-on-the-floor, looping, hypnotic — the kind of bass that repeats until your body just falls into it and stops asking question

Season 4, Episode 2 "The Missing Twin" Hello house fans, it's ThatPodcastGirl Cdub, and This Is A Podcast About House Music. For years, this story got told a certain way: house came first in Chicago, and then, a little later, techno showed up in Detroit — almost like a colder cousin arriving late to the party, borrowing a sound that already belonged to somebody else. I want to tell you right now: that version is wrong. Because at the exact same time Frankie Knuckles was reshaping disco on Chicago's West Side, something else was happening less than a day's drive away — in a bedroom outside Detroit, on the same kind of drum machines, powered by the same kind of hunger to make something nobody had heard yet. This is Case File Number Two: The Missing Twin. Case note one: the family tree was filed wrong. Here's the lazy version of this story, the one you'll hear if you only read one paragraph about it: house came first in Chicago, techno came later in Detroit, so techno must be house's little cousin — house with the emotion drained out and the chrome painted on. That's tidy. It's also not what the record shows. Juan Atkins — one of three friends from Belleville who'd go on to shape this whole sound — released "Alleys of Your Mind" under the name Cybotron in 1981, on his own tiny label, out of a relationship formed at community college with a Vietnam veteran named Rick Davis, a synth expert with serious gear who taught Atkins the basics of electronic production. The record sold well locally around Detroit before most of Chicago's foundational house records had even been pressed. So this was never really a straight line — Chicago first, Detroit downstream. This was two things happening at close to the same time, in the same Midwestern corridor — Chicago on one end, a small town called Belleville outside Detroit on the other — connected less by geography than by records, machines, radio signals, and hunger. The cleaner file, the one we're opening today, says this: Chicago house and Detroit techno are fraternal twins. Not identical. Not parent and child. Born close together, sharing real DNA, raised by two different rooms. And when the family tree gets filed wrong, everything after that gets distorted — who gets called original, who gets called derivative, who gets centered, and who gets footnoted. Case note two: the DNA. Before we get into what made these two sounds different, I want to be honest about what they actually share, because the twin metaphor only works if the DNA is real. Both cities were drawing from disco and its afterlife. Both were drawing from funk and soul — Detroit especially from Parliament and George Clinton, whose influence on the Belleville Three runs so deep that Derrick May would later describe their entire sound as, in his words, something like George Clinton and Kraftwerk trapped in an elevator with nothing but a sequencer to keep them company. Both cities were drawing from European electronic music — Kraftwerk's fingerprints are on both Chicago house and Detroit techno, just pressed down with different weight. Both cities had access to the same generation of drum machines, synthesizers, and sequencers, newly cheap enough for teenagers to get their hands on — the same handful of Roland boxes showing up in bedrooms on both sides of this story, even if the exact gear evolved a little differently city to city. And both cities had radio as a lifeline. Chicago had WBMX and the Hot Mix 5, turning club music into citywide youth culture. Detroit had a DJ named Charles Johnson — everyone called him The Electrifying Mojo — who ran a five-hour show called The Midnight Funk Association on WGPR, with no format restrictions at all. One night he might play Kraftwerk's "Trans-Europe Express" back-to-back with Parliament, then Prince, then something nobody in the room had a name for yet. Same DNA. Different nursery. That's the whole case.

Hey my sexy listeners, it’s thatpodcastgirl Cdub, and This is Season Four of This Is A Podcast About House Music. And this season, we're doing something different. We're treating the history of this genre like a case file cuz ya’ll love true crime podcasts. Case file number one. The question everybody thinks they already know the answer to: Who invented house music? Ask a casual fan, you'll get one name back almost every time: Frankie Knuckles. The Warehouse. Chicago. Done. Next question. And look — that answer isn't wrong, exactly. It's the same way "Al Capone ran Chicago" isn't wrong. It's true enough to repeat at a party. It just isn't the whole file. Because the second you start pulling threads, you find other names insisting they belong in this story too. A guy named Jesse Saunders, who says he made the first house record, on vinyl, that you could actually buy. A guy named Chip E., who says Saunders is wrong, and that his record is the one that actually invented something new. A DJ named Ron Hardy, at a club called the Music Box, where songs didn't get released so much as they got put on trial in front of a dance floor that could make you or break you in real time. So here's the case we're opening today. Not "who did it" — because "it" isn't a crime. The case is: how did the story get this scattered? And what were we actually looking for when we asked the question in the first place? Let's start with what we thought we knew, because you have to state the assumption clearly before you can take it apart. The assumption is this: Frankie Knuckles invented house music at a club called the Warehouse. Here's the version of that story you've probably heard. 1977. A club owner named Robert Williams opens a members-only spot at 206 South Jefferson Street in Chicago. He brings in a DJ from New York — Frankie Knuckles — to run the booth. The crowd is Black, Latino, largely gay, and they are there to dance in a way that most of America's clubs were not built for. Knuckles plays disco, imports, reworked soul and funk records, stretching songs out, building the night like it's one long piece of music instead of a sequence of singles. And then — as the story goes — kids around the city start going to record stores asking for "that music they play at the Warehouse." Somebody shortens it. "House music." A genre gets its name from a building. It's a great story. It's got a location. It's got a hero. It's got an origin myth as clean as anything Marvel ever put out. Frankie Knuckles becomes "the Godfather of House," and the case, as far as most people are concerned, is closed before it opens. But here's the thing about clean stories. They're usually hiding a body. So let's actually build the case file. Because once you lay the evidence out side by side, you start to notice something — nobody's lying, exactly. They're just each holding a different piece of the same crime scene. The Warehouse is real. It opened in 1977, it operated until 1982, and Chicago's own city landmark records confirm that this was the room where Frankie Knuckles helped shape what would become house music. That's not folklore — that's in a municipal document. But here's the complication. In its early years, the Warehouse wasn't playing "house records." There was no such thing yet. It was playing disco, it was playing imports, it was playing reworked soul and funk cut up and extended for the dance floor. The Warehouse might be the birthplace of a culture and a name — but it was not, in its first years, the birthplace of a recorded genre. Those are two different crime scenes, and we've been treating them like one. Knuckles earns the title "Godfather" honestly. He came out from New York after Larry Levan — a legendary DJ in his own right — turned the Warehouse residency down. Knuckles spent years building that room into one of the most important spaces in Chicago nightlife.

Hello, my sexy listeners. I'm ThatPodcastGirl C Dub, and This Is A Podcast About House Music. Let me take you somewhere. It's a Saturday. Not morning yet — that thing after morning where the light hasn't figured out what it wants to be. You're standing in a record shop. Not browsing. Waiting. The man behind the counter is watching your face while the needle drops on something he hasn't told you the name of yet. And the kick lands, and something shifts in your chest, and you don't say anything because you don't need to. He already sees it. He pulls the sleeve from under the counter and slides it toward you like a secret. That was the whole thing. That moment was the whole thing. The search had geography. It had weather. It had train rides and phone calls and handwritten track IDs on folded pieces of paper you kept in your coat. It had standing there with headphones pressed to your ears, heart doing something, nobody naming it. Before digital files filled the booth, discovery lived in physical places. Then the map changed. In 2000, Kevin Lewandowski built something that looked, from the outside, like a database. Discogs started as an archive for electronic music. But what it really was — what it became — was a memory. A living one. A place where the credits could be corrected, the aliases finally connected, the white labels identified, the forgotten pressing traced back to a person and a session and a year. House music is full of hidden lines. One producer under five names. One vocalist uncredited on a remix that became bigger than the original. One dub that circulated for a decade before anyone pinned down who made it. Discogs didn't make the music easier to feel. It made it easier to follow. That's a different kind of gift. Don't underestimate it.

When the Beat Matches Itself: Richie Hawtin, Len Faki, and Digital Changes Everything Hello, my sexy listeners. I'm ThatPodcastGirl C Dub, and This Is A Podcast About House Music. Let's get into today's episode. The booth is quieter now.