Ep. 38 Thucydides Part I with Andrea Radasanu

It's here: our last episode on the Iliad! Achilles continues to mourn Patroclus, and to try to disfigure Hector's body. After days of this, Apollo intervenes, and the gods help Priam to retrieve his son's body from Achilles' tent. Brian, Shilo, and Jeff consider Achilles' "foreign policy" in his dealings with Priam, and the meaning of Homer's epic as a whole. Does the end of the Iliad portray a decline to a world run by liars and dancers, or an ascent to an almost joyful tragic insight into human power? In the final analysis, is it better to be a human being than to be a god? Do we need to read the Odyssey together to answer these questions?

After our antepenultimate Iliad episode comes... the penultimate episode! In Book 23, Hector is dead, and Achilles mourns Patroclus, who comes to Achilles in a dream and demands a funeral. So Achilles organizes funeral games: chariot and foot races, boxing and wrestling, and more. The Argives compete, and contend over the justice of their competition. We ask: why does Homer's description of the chariot race take up half of the book? Does Achilles do a good job of managing this race and judging its outcome? Join Brian, Shilo, and Jeff as they discuss the "domestic policy" of the post-wrath, or dead, Achilles. Does he now permit pity and skill to come to the fore, and is this a sign of growth or decline? Is the world of pity and skill a world where one person can be good at everything?

Here's our antepenultimate episode on the Iliad! In Book 22, Apollo, disguised as Agenor, lures Achilles away from Troy. When he sees through the deception, Achilles goes after Hector, and chases him around the city's walls. This goes on until Athena disguises herself as Deiphobus, and tricks Hector into facing Achilles. Then Achilles kills Hector, and drags his corpse around behind his chariot. Brian, Shilo, and Jeff ask: why does Hector decide to face Achilles, rather than taking refuge within the walls of Troy? We discuss whether his choice makes sense, and whether he is driven by a just (or an unjust) shame. We also consider whether Hector could have gotten help, whether he could have negotiated with Achilles, and whether he and Achilles, under different circumstances, could have been friends.

We're back, with our preantepenultimate episode on the Iliad! In Book 21, we get into the action. Achilles kills so many Trojans that the river Scamander protests the mess he is making. So Achilles fights the river, and nearly dies. Then there is a war between the gods; they lay it on without restraint. Meanwhile, Achilles kills two of Priam's sons, as he watches. And the Trojans are driven back into the gates of Troy. Join Brian, Shilo, and Jeff as they talk about what it might look like to fight a river, and wonder why Achilles cares about how his body looks after he dies. Is Achilles driven by justice in this book, or the noble, or both? Is excellence more visible in a contest between equals, or between unequals? And does Zeus enjoy the suffering of the gods because it makes them better?

In Book 20, Achilles gets new armor from his mom, and rejoins the battle. Zeus tells the gods to take sides, and to go nuts. And Achilles faces Aeneas and Hector, and fights them, so that the gods have to save them. Brian, Shilo, and Jeff talk about why Achilles' single combat with Aeneas is the centerpiece of the book, and why Achilles and Aeneas talk so much before they fight. Does the combat between Achilles and Aeneas prompt Poseidon to change sides? We also talk about why Zeus wants to see the spectacle of all the soldiers at Troy and all the gods fighting one another. Does Zeus find the suffering of soldiers and gods to be pleasant?