Ep 5: Books and Podcasts That Emma Recommends | It’s Good to Talk Summer Edition

When a mother steps back into her career after years of carrying the primary parenting load, it isn't just about "getting back to work", it's about catching up on lost momentum. But making space for a mother's career to thrive requires more than just goodwill; it demands that fathers step in as fully hands-on leads at home. In this episode, Emma sits down with Auckland couple Hannah and Matt McHugh. Hannah works in corporate charity partnerships and proudly "parents out loud" on LinkedIn, while Matt has shifted from full-time construction sites to taking the lead at home with their three young boys. They share the realities of their home baton change, the social friction and identity shifts Matt experienced in the schoolyard and the trade industry, and how finding an open-minded employer created a flexible, part-time building role that fits their family. Hannah and Matt also unpack their six-year journey using the Fair Play system, explaining how delegating entire domain ownerships, from lunchboxes to cars, eliminates domestic resentment and builds true partnership. In This Episode, You'll Learn: The Domestic Baton Change: How Matt transitioned to lead parent at home to enable Hannah to catch up on career momentum. The Construction Industry Hurdle: Facing cultural pushback in traditional trades and how Matt secured a rare, flexible part-time building role through LinkedIn networking. School Gate Dynamics and Identity Shifts: Navigating the social re-adjustment from site banter to being "the playdate dad" at school pickups. Domain Ownership Over Micromanagement: Using the Fair Play framework to hand over complete portfolios (cars, pets, lunchboxes) without stepping in to control the outcome. Lowering Standards for Household Harmony: Choosing which domestic "balls" are glass and which are plastic to keep family life focused on connection. The Magic Wand System Levers: Normalising a 50/50 parenting expectation from the outset and shifting societal focus away from financial pressure to put family well-being first.

When a mother is the primary earner, the assumption that she will automatically be the default parent creates friction at work and at home. But when a partner actively steps up to share the load, systemic workplace cultures often penalise active dads for requesting the exact same flexibility extended to mothers. In this episode, Emma sits down with senior marketing executive Emily Blumenthal to explore the realities of juggling a high-level corporate career while raising five-year-old twins. Emily shares how gendered caregiving assumptions caught her and her husband by surprise, her experience navigating a return-to-work redundancy, and why drawing firm boundaries around reduced-hours leadership roles is essential for long-term career sustainability. Emily and Emma break down the practical systems required to run a smooth household, from daily check-ins over making school lunches to the psychological shift required when mothers step back so fathers can fully step in. In This Episode, We Talk About: The Dual Penalty for Active Parents: How societal assumptions punish breadwinning mothers while simultaneously penalising fathers who ask for caregiving flexibility. Returning After Twins: Navigating corporate restructures, part-time transitions, and knowing when to hold non-negotiable boundaries around working hours. The Power of the Backup Plan: How maintaining options and consulting or contracting paths restores agency during corporate uncertainty. Daily Connection Systems: Using routine household tasks to over-communicate, align schedules, and address friction before resentment builds. When Mums Let Go: Why stepping away from the default parent role allows partners to build confidence and take full ownership of caregiving. The 32-Hour Magic Wand: Challenging the outdated 40-hour workweek standard and using AI and technology to drive productivity over presenteeism.

So many experienced, high-achieving women return from parental leave only to find themselves treated less like a strategic asset and more like a workplace liability. Faced with rigid expectations and zero room for growth, it’s easy to slip into survival mode, take a demotion, or quietly settle for roles that no longer challenge or inspire. In this episode, Emma welcomes Melbourne-based, Kiwi-born leadership and ambition coach Kat Francis. With two decades of experience in senior agency leadership across Australia and New Zealand, Kat shares her personal journey of quitting a top agency career to rebuild a lifestyle where work and life align. She and Emma explore why high-performing mothers struggle to admit what they actually want, how to transition from simply surviving to actively choosing your next step, and why the personal growth gained through motherhood is actually an unrecognised leadership bonus. Kat also shares practical tactics for managing household dynamics with a partner, letting go of the rigid 50/50 split, and walking into career negotiations with unshakeable confidence. In This Episode, You'll Learn: The "Refined Ambition" Shift: Why experienced, senior women often fall out of love with their careers post-kids and how to step back to figure out what you actually want. The Motherhood Bonus: Reframing the experience of raising children as a massive leadership development upgrade that builds boundaries, focus, and drive. Moving Beyond Survival Mode: Recognising that while survival mode is a necessary phase for young families, you cannot set up camp there permanently. The Directorship Approach to Home Life: Why Kat prefers allocating domain "directorships" (like Director of Holidays or Director of Maintenance) over tracking every minor household task. "With or Without You" Negotiation Energy: How stepping into your value and dropping the fear of rejection makes you unbeatable in career transitions. Believing in Your Bigness: Giving yourself permission to stop settling for crappy or stagnant roles just because you're a mother.

Despite progress in workplace policy, modern mothers still face a pervasive culture that minimises their professional capabilities, limits career progression, and leaves them carrying the default parenting load. The systemic barriers facing working parents aren't just financial, they're deeply embedded in cultural expectations of who does the caring. In this episode, Emma is joined by former Minister for Women and current Labour MP Hon Jan Tinetti. Drawing from her personal journey as a school principal, cancer survivor, and mother navigating high-pressure careers while supporting a sick partner, Jan offers a raw, lived perspective on the stigma attached to working mothers. She and Emma explore how central government can lead systemic change, why the first 2,000 days of a child's life should be the ultimate focal point for public investment, and why early childhood education must be treated as a transparent public good rather than a corporate profit engine. Emma and Jan unpack what it takes to shift society's perception of caregiving, the necessity of paid partner leave, and how community-led initiatives are already leading the way. In This Episode, You'll Learn: The Stigma of the Working Mother: Jan shares her powerful personal experience of community pushback while working as a principal during a family health crisis. Disrupting Default Roles: How shifting primary caregiving responsibilities to partners challenges entrenched gender stereotypes (and the social friction that comes with it). Rethinking Early Childhood Education: Why transparency in ECE funding matters, and how to balance affordability, quality, and public investment. The Family Hub Model: Looking to international examples like the UK to build wraparound support systems for parents from maternity onward. Community-Led Solutions: Highlighting local initiatives like Safari Playgroups in Auckland that empower migrant and refugee mothers through connection, education, and belonging. The Magic Wand System Lever: Reorganising government funding and social strategy around the first 2,000 days of a child's life to support both the child and the parent.

The traditional eight-hour workday was built for an industrial era that simply no longer reflects how modern families live or work. While workplaces slowly adapt to hybrid setups, the systemic pressure on working parents. And the long-term financial hit taken by mothers, remains largely unaddressed. In this episode, Emma kicks off a special series bringing political leaders into the conversation to explore real, systemic solutions to the motherhood penalty. First up is Qiulae Wong, leader of The Opportunity Party (TOP) and mum of two. Drawing on her career in purpose-led business and corporate sustainability, Qiulae breaks down why our current economic structures leave parents struggling, how a universal safety net could reshape family life, and why New Zealand urgently needs to rethink how we value caregiving. Emma and Qiulae explore the harsh realities of returning to work after children, the hidden costs of early childhood education, and why fixing the motherhood penalty requires bold economic reform rather than small policy tweaks. In This Episode, You'll Learn: Asynchronous Working: How flexible, outcome-focused workplaces create environments where caregivers, parents, and businesses actually thrive. The Citizen’s Income Proposal: How a universal payment model provides a genuine safety net for parents taking time out of the paid workforce for caregiving. Childcare as Essential Infrastructure: Why early childhood education requires better funding standards, lower ratios, and broader choices to stop parents feeling trapped on a financial hamster wheel. The Shared Leave Gap: Why government parental leave payments must evolve to support both parents fully without driving families into financial distress. The Missing NZ Data: Why New Zealand must follow international models to track and measure the true, long-term impact of the motherhood penalty on women's earnings and KiwiSaver balances.