Show Notes
Before getting into this new podcast, have you checked out the recent newsletter editions of Ground Truths? —how are gut microbiome drives sugar cravings —the influence of sleep on brain waste clearance and aging —the new findings of microplastics in the brain —the surprise finding about doctors and A.I.
In this podcast with Dr. Emily Silverman, an internist and founder of The Nocturnists, an award winning podcast and live show, we discuss what inspired her in medicine, what led to her disillusionment, the essentiality of storytelling, of recognizing uncertainty, the limits of A.I., and promoting humanity in medicine. The audio is available on iTunes and Spotify. The full video is linked here, at the top, and also can be found on YouTube.
“Storytelling is medicine's currency. Storytelling is not just an act of self-healing; it may actually create better physicians.”—Emily Silverman
Transcript with links to audio and relevant publications, websites Eric Topol (00:07): Well, hello. This is Eric Topol with Ground Truths, and with me, I am delighted to welcome Dr. Emily Silverman, who is Assistant Volunteer Professor of Medicine at UCSF, an old training grounds for me. And we're going to talk about some of the experience she's had there and she is the Founder of the remarkably recognized podcast, The Nocturnists. It's more than a podcast folks. We'll talk about that too. So Emily, welcome. Emily Silverman (00:40): Thank you for having me. Inspiration by Kate McKinnon Eric Topol (00:42): Yeah. Well, I thought I would go back to perhaps when we first synapsed, and it goes back to a piece you wrote in JAMA about going to the Saturday Night Live (SNL) with Kate McKinnon. And it was one of my favorite columns, of course, it brought us together kind of simpatico because you were telling a story that was very personal, and a surprise factor added to it. We'll link to it. But it said, ‘Sometime in 2016, I fell in love with SNL comedian Kate McKinnon.’ You wrote, ‘It was something about her slow-mo swagger; her unilateral dimple, flickering in and out of existence; the way she drinks up her characters and sweats them from her pores.’ I mean, you're an incredible writer, no less podcast interviewer, organizer, doctor. And you talked about my sterile clinical life, which was kind of maybe a warning of things to come and about the fact that there's two very different career paths, comedy and medicine. One could argue they are in essence the same. So maybe you could tell us about that experience and about Kate McKinnon who, I mean, she's amazing. Emily Silverman (02:09): You're making me blush. Thank you for the kind words about the piece and about the writing, and I'm happy to give you a bit of background on that piece and where it came from. So I was in my internal medicine residency at UCSF and about halfway through residency really found myself hitting a wall. And that is actually what gave birth to The Nocturnists, which is the medical storytelling program that I run. But I think another symptom of my hitting that wall, so to speak, and we can talk more about what exactly that is and what that means, was me really looking outside of medicine and also outside of my typical day-to-day routine to try to find things that were a part of me that I had lost or I had lost touch with those aspects of myself. And one aspect of myself that I felt like I had lost touch to was my humorous side, my sense of humor, my silly side even you could say. Emily Silverman (03:17): And throughout my life I have this pattern where when I'm trying to get back in touch with a side of myself, I usually find somebody who represents that and sort of study it, I guess you could say. So in this case, for whatever reason that landed on Kate McKinnon, I just loved the surrealism of her comedy. I loved how absurd she is and loved her personality and so many things. Everything that you just read and really found her and her comedy as an escape, as a way to escape the ser
More from Ground Truths
Michael Lewis is one of the best storytellers of our era. You know and likely have read his books Moneyball, The Big Short, The Blind Side, Flash Boys, Liar’s Poker, and The Undoing Project, to name a few. He has long been one of my favorite authors. This was the first interview that Michael did on his new book, BLOCKERS, published on October 6th, streamed live on Substack Sept 29th. It’s his 21st book and 4 of the last 5 have been about the US government: The Fifth Risk (2019), Premonition (2021), and Who Is Government? (2025). His ability to talk with the silent civil servant heroes of multiple government agencies (the Blockers), members of the DOGE destruction team, and much more from the current US government administration.
In recent weeks the results (announced by press release) of 2 major placebo-controlled randomized trials—ZEUS, testing an interleukin-6 (IL-6) blocker vs inflammation, and HORIZON, testing a drug to lower Lp(a), indicated failure to achieve their primary endpoint. Are we maxxed out for new treatments vs heart disease, as this article in the WSJ (←gift link) today asserts? “Cardiovascular drug development is starting to look a bit like the modern oil industry. The easy wells have been tapped. What’s left is in deep water: expensive, technically perilous and less likely to strike oil.”
This podcast is meant to complement my recent Ground Truths post Why Our Memory Slips After Age 50 which has all the relevant links to the 2 papers, key graphics, and other related publications. If you haven’t had a chance to read that, it would be helpful to spend a few minutes to do so before listening to this podcast. Links to the 2 papers for those who don’t want to look back Zemke et al in Science https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adt8307 Belk et al in Nature https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-026-10939-0
Deb Cohen is an award winning investigative journalist and correspondent who trained as a physician and has worked with the BBC and BMJ. She just published BAD INFLUENCE, a book which takes us deep into the wellness-industrial complex—the confluence of the supplement, testing, tech, and pharma industries, and how they sell health anxiety to healthy people.
Sarah Urbut is a physician-scientist at Harvard Medical School and the Massachusetts General Research Institute. She and her colleagues published a landmark paper in Nature on patient health journeys for 3 different cohorts—the Mass General Brigham patients, the UK Biobank, and the All of Us research program—with a cumulative 683,000 individuals, 348 diseases, and up to 52 years of follow-up. Integrating electronic medical records and polygenic risk scores (N=36). An AI model was developed and validated called ALADYNOULLI, with each individual represented latent disease signatures (N=21), mathematically and biologically driven. An example of a patient’s dynamic life journey (health arc) is provided in the Figure below (adapted from the paper, made with NotebookLM). The longitudinal story for each individual is key here. Using a Gaussian process, the risk continually shifts like a GPS navigation when you make a wrong turn and you are re-routed. Considerable effort was dedicated to addressing selection bias with inverse probability weighting.