Ep 75: Taboo: Exploring the Lifestyle Despite Society’s Rules

What happens when you finally sit down with your adult children and talk openly about swinging…and sex? Zack and Josie invited their daughters into a conversation they’d never had before, answering their questions, asking a few of their own, and tackling questions submitted by listeners in the Two Plus Two Podcast group on Peaches’nCream. With a family history personally impacted by the lifestyle, the conversation goes deeper than curiosity. The girls share what they believed about swinging, what they knew about their parents’ past, and why they were surprised Zack and Josie chose to return to the lifestyle after how badly things went the first time. Together, they unpack how age, openness, and the strength of Zack and Josie’s relationship have changed the way the girls see it today. Everyone walks away having learned something new, proving it’s never too late to have an honest conversation. For parents with adult children who are navigating the same question of whether to open up about the lifestyle, this episode offers a candid look at the possibilities on the other side of that conversation.

Do women really want sex as much as men? Or have men and women been taught to think about sex so differently that we never really question the assumptions behind that question? Zack and Josie take a surprisingly deep dive into the gender-specific messages they received growing up and discover how those messages may still be shaping their experiences in the lifestyle today. Girls are taught that boys just want sex and will do anything to get it—and that it's their job to protect themselves and not “give it up.” Boys, meanwhile, are taught that wanting sex is natural and that they have to “get it” from girls. That creates a fundamental imbalance: one gender is taught to pursue sex while the other is taught to control access to it. And those messages don't necessarily disappear when people enter a committed relationship—or even when they enter the lifestyle. Zack and Josie explore how those early lessons, along with the messages reinforced by television, movies and popular culture, can create expectations that men will always want sex and women won't. But what happens when you build a sexual relationship on that assumption? As they challenge their own beliefs, Zack and Josie realize they may experience and think about sex very differently—not simply because they're a man and a woman, but because they were programmed with very different ideas about what sex means, who should want it, who should initiate it and what it says about you when you do. The conversation gets raw, personal and unexpectedly revealing, with plenty of “aha” moments for both hosts. More importantly, they come away with new perspectives that could help them—and other couples—approach the lifestyle with more understanding, excitement, fulfillment and perhaps even more success. If you've ever wondered why you and your partner seem to experience desire differently, this conversation may give you a completely different way to look at it—and help you understand what your partner may be thinking but never quite saying.

What happens when one partner wants to explore the lifestyle and the other is a “hell no!”? In this entertaining and candid conversation, Zack and Josie are joined by Genie and Dr. G to explore a question that hits close to home for many couples: How do you convince your wife to get into the lifestyle? Presented tongue in cheek, the conversation reveals an underlying truth: You can't convince someone to do something they're not ready for. Each couple shares how they discovered the lifestyle, navigated their early experiences, and learned to balance two unique individuals within the same relationship. But what happens when a wife hears the suggestion and wonders, "Am I not enough?" Josie and Genie share their initial reactions to their husbands' proposals, offering insight into the emotions and concerns that can arise when one partner introduces the idea. The conversation explores both the female and male perspectives, along with practical advice for navigating insecurities, communication, and the desire to explore something new together. As the discussion evolves, the couples explore the importance of respecting the pace of the more conservative partner, recognizing individual differences, and understanding that a couple's journey doesn't have to look like anyone else's. Josie and Genie also reflect on the personal growth they've experienced through entering and navigating the lifestyle. Entertaining, informative, and filled with honest insights, this episode offers couples a valuable opportunity to reflect on their relationship, expectations, and readiness before taking the next step into the lifestyle.

Zack and Josie are on their own again as they tackle a listener’s difficult question about navigating the lifestyle when partners have very different ideas about intimacy, emotions, and what feels comfortable. Only three months into the lifestyle, the listener and his wife have formed a strong four-way connection with another couple. He wants to develop a close, sensual relationship with the other wife while still viewing and desiring the relationship as something shared between the two couples. His wife, however, feels insecure about the depth of that connection and has made it clear that she doesn’t want to develop feelings for people they have sex with. What initially sounds like a disagreement about what is—or isn’t—too intimate quickly becomes a much deeper conversation about insecurity, fear, shame, vulnerability, and the need to feel safe with the person who is supposed to be your partner through it all. Zack and Josie explore the difference between making love and just fucking, how couples can move through the lifestyle together when their boundaries don't perfectly align, and why communication is foundational to sexual exploration and liberation. They also discuss how partners can create the kind of safety that makes difficult conversations possible, how to support rather than invalidate each other’s feelings, and why being fully supported by a partner can make all the difference when confronting the internal struggles that come with exploring outside the traditional boundaries of a relationship. True to form, Zack and Josie use thought experiments to examine the situation from different perspectives and offer their best advice for navigating this—and the many other difficult conversations couples may encounter along their lifestyle journey.

For the first time, Zack and Josie recorded an episode of Two Plus Two entirely on their own—and they had plenty to talk about. They share the highs and lows of their first Naughty N’awlins experience, an event they had heard only positive things about. In a little nod to their previous conversation about taboo, they stepped well outside their normal routine and had five back-to-back play experiences, playing every day they were there. They discuss the positives and negatives of doing that and share some unexpected consequences. They each weigh in on whether they would repeat five days of consecutive play and what they may do differently. They attended workshops for the first time and experienced a dungeon tasting, where Josie was introduced to e-stim and the violet wand. She enjoyed the experience enough to purchase a violet wand of her own from The Dungeon Store. And then there’s the secret Brad repeatedly teased them about: How can you tell whether a play session is going to be good before you actually play? Zack and Josie finally reveal what they believe is the answer and discuss whether they would still play if they suspected the experience might not be great—or simply walk away and have sex with each other instead. Josie also reveals a shift in her mindset from “give me reasons to say yes” to “give me reasons to say no,” leading to a conversation about how their approach to play has evolved. They briefly share their experience at Colette and invite listeners to weigh in on whether they prioritize quantity or quality in their own experiences by joining the conversation on Peaches’nCream.