427: From RWA to AI Agents: How Pharos Is Closing the Web2-Web3 Gap with Guest Speaker Wish Wu

EPISODE DESCRIPTION In this episode, I sit down with Gracie, the Regional CEO for Singapore, Australia, and Head of VIP Growth of OKX based in Singapore, right inside her office. She takes me through a career that started at a central bank during the global financial crisis, moved through the private sector and Grab, and landed her at one of the world's most prominent crypto exchanges. We get into what has kept OKX ahead of the curve , from a relentless product obsession to years of early investment in regulatory compliance before it was fashionable. Gracie shares her views on where the industry is heading, why tokenized real-world assets and AI agentic commerce are the two spaces she watches most closely, and how OKX is already building native wallet infrastructure for AI agents to transact autonomously. If you want to understand what separates the exchanges that survive every market cycle from the ones that disappear, this conversation is for you. CONNECT OKX Website: https://www.okx.com/en-sg OKX Twitter/X: https://x.com/OKXSingapore OKX LinkedIn:https://x.com/OKXSingapore Gracie LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracie-lin-a8866361/ Web3 with Sam Kamani Website: https://www.web3pod.xyz KEY POINTS WITH TIMESTAMPS • [00:00] Gracie opens with why consumer expectations around instant cross-border payments are reshaping finance • [01:15] Sam introduces Gracie as Regional CEO of OKX Singapore and sets up the conversation • [02:25] Gracie walks through her 10 years at the central bank, including navigating the global financial crisis • [03:51] Her six years at Grab and how it taught her to build for the end consumer and bridge tech teams • [05:15] How she copes with the speed of change in crypto versus traditional finance • [07:16] Sam and Gracie discuss the true size of the crypto developer ecosystem versus Web2 • [08:08] Why the quieter market is actually attracting serious institutional attention • [10:06] The two innovations OKX is watching most closely heading into 2027: AI agents and tokenized RWAs • [11:51] Why US Treasuries and stablecoins found product-market fit first, and what asset class comes next • [13:43] Tokenized equities , especially AI stocks and pre-IPO shares , as the next major category • [14:31] Why real estate tokenization remains so difficult despite years of hype • [17:02] The two pillars behind OKX's success: product obsession and early regulatory investment • [20:16] Gracie's contrarian view , the younger generation has a genuine choice to opt out of traditional banking • [24:58] What OKX has already built for agentic commerce: wallets, payments protocol, and LLM-based trading tools • [27:30] Why OKX's Agentic Trade Kit workshops in Singapore are oversubscribed every single time • [28:17] Why crypto rails , not credit cards or bank transfers , are the right infrastructure for AI agents • [29:54] OKX's global expansion focus: local teams, licensing, and localized product experiences • [33:17] The biggest challenge right now: hiring exceptional talent in Singapore and Australia

EPISODE DESCRIPTION I sat down with Howard at Token 2049 in 2026 to dig into one of the most overlooked problems in crypto right now: the complete lack of financial privacy on public blockchains. Howard is the founder of Aleo, the team behind Shield , a privacy-first multi-asset wallet and confidential AMM. We go deep on why on-chain transparency is a genuine security risk for everyday users, why institutions absolutely cannot operate without confidential finance, and how Aleo's approach differs from the cypherpunk-style privacy coins of the past. Howard breaks down how zero-knowledge proof technology has evolved from taking three minutes on a MacBook to three seconds on an iPhone, why compliance and privacy are not opposites, and what confidential finance means for the next wave of RWAs, stablecoin payments, and AI agents trading on-chain. This is a conversation I think anyone building or investing in Web3 needs to hear. DISCLAIMER Nothing mentioned in this podcast is investment advice and please do your own research. It would mean a lot if you can leave a review of this podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and share this podcast with a friend. Be a guest on the podcast or contact us - https://www.web3pod.xyz/ CONNECT Shield Wallet: https://shield.app Shield Swap: https://shield.fi Aleo Website: https://aleo.org/ Twitter/X (Aleo): https://x.com/AleoHQ Howard LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/1howardwu/?isSelfProfile=false Web3 with Sam Kamani: https://www.web3pod.xyz/ KEY POINTS WITH TIMESTAMPS • [0:00] The core privacy problem: sending USDC reveals your entire financial life to anyone with your ETH address • [1:16] Introduction at Token 2049 2026 , the industry has gone institutional and privacy is now a top concern • [2:56] RWAs, tokenized securities, and stablecoins are coming on-chain , and institutions need confidentiality to operate • [4:16] Real-world stakes: a coffee shop competitor can buy all your business data for the price of one cup of coffee • [6:00] Compliant privacy vs. dark privacy , confidentiality by default and compliance by design • [7:31] The market awareness gap: most people don't realize how much data they're leaking on transparent blockchains • [9:27] Why privacy tech is finally ready: ZK proof generation dropped from 3 minutes to 3 seconds over 10 years • [10:43] Howard's background: advised by Zcash co-founders, worked on ZK proofs at Berkeley since 2015 • [11:11] How Aleo started: the goal was to build private Ethereum the same way Zcash built private Bitcoin • [11:31] Shield Wallet: a privacy-first multi-asset wallet with a confidential AMM (think private Uniswap) • [12:41] Shield Wallet today has no KYC requirement, but includes selective disclosure, freeze lists, and Z-Pass identity proofs • [14:42] Current use cases: cross-border payments, remittances, payroll in emerging economies • [16:01] AI's role: used internally for security, formal verification, and helping developers write Leo smart contract code • [17:25] Aleo is part of the X402 coalition , building toward confidential agentic finance for AI agents • [18:19] Why Leo instead of Solidity: Solidity has no concept of privacy built into the language • [19:54] If starting over in 2026: build agentic-first, make payments and swaps first-party at the protocol level • [21:16] Key challenge ahead: US political and regulatory environment will be a major determinant of mainstream adoption • [23:52] Next narrative: confidential finance will become as big a theme as scalability was 10 years ago • [26:50] Call to action: try Shield at shield.app or Shield Swap at shield.fi

EPISODE DESCRIPTION In this episode, I sit down with David Lucatch, co-founder of nGRND, a project doing something I had never seen before: tokenizing gold that stays in the ground, untouched. David walks me through how preserved gold works, why leaving gold in the earth can actually be more valuable than mining it, and how the nGRND protocol rewards participants in stablecoins rather than native tokens, a design choice that changes everything. We also dig into how they hit over 288,000 verified users and 145,000 daily active users in just 70 days, the role of dynamic soulbound tokens in keeping bots out, and what David’s 30-plus years across e-commerce, AI, and TradFi have taught him about building things that last. Since our conversation, the nGRND Gold Protocol’s numbers have continued to explode: as of October 2026, they’re running past 310,000 participants with over 6.6 million ecosystem activities completed. If you are a founder, a Web3 builder, or just someone curious about where gold and real-world assets are heading, this one is packed with insight. DISCLAIMER Nothing mentioned in this podcast is investment advice and please do your own research. It would mean a lot if you can leave a review of this podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and share this podcast with a friend. Be a guest on the podcast or contact us - https://www.web3pod.xyz/ CONNECT nGRND Website: https://www.ngrnd.io/ Twitter/X: https://x.com/nGRND_io nGRNDesg: https://x.com/nGRNDesg Dig It Gold Game: https://x.com/DigItGoldGame GAMEE: https://x.com/GAMEEToken Predictfully: https://x.com/predictfully_ Astra Nova: https://x.com/Astra__Nova First Class Metals PLC: https://x.com/FirstClassMetal Web3 with Sam Kamani: https://www.web3pod.xyz/ KEY POINTS WITH TIMESTAMPS • [00:00] Introduction to David Lucatch and what nGRND is building at the intersection of gold and Web3 • [02:05] David's background: building Canada's first e-commerce payment gateways, launching an AI platform in 2010 with 200M monthly active users, and multiple exits • [05:12] What is preserved gold (in situ gold) and why leaving gold in the ground creates economic value without environmental destruction • [06:31] How nGRND verifies gold using industry-standard reports like Canada's National Instrument 43-101 and equivalent Jorc reports • [08:44] Why nGRND values in-ground gold at 10% of spot price and the risk analysis behind that number • [10:13] The difference between the nGRND Gold Token (virtual asset tied to gold value) and the nGRND Gold Protocol (rewards platform paid in stablecoins) • [11:39] How the land above the gold generates revenue through avoided mining, solar farms, wind farms, and farming partnerships , feeding the rewards pool • [13:02] Why paying rewards in stablecoins instead of native tokens reduces sell pressure and creates a more sustainable ecosystem • [16:05] How nGRND reached 288,000 verified users and 145,000 daily active users in just 70 days • [16:53] What verified means: dynamic soulbound tokens, triple opt-in verification, and bot reduction strategies • [20:44] How dynamic soulbound tokens work, why they are non-transferable, and how they gate access to ecosystem programs • [24:50] The eight participation streams: games, learning, impact programs, wellbeing, referrals, advocacy, agent programs, and governance • [27:22] Why 30% of users come from North America and airdrop hunters are almost non-existent in the nGRND ecosystem • [33:27] Token timeline: gold protocol white paper live now, gold token white paper expected by end of year, token sale and exchange listings coming soon • [36:47] Macro gold outlook: from $359 at the birth of the internet to Goldman Sachs projecting $5,400 , and why long-term gold trends upward • [39:07] How putting gold on-chain unlocks borrowing, lending, and digital transfer use cases • [43:13] The biggest challenge ahead: changing attitudes in a 40-year-old industry and building a trusted brand for the long term

EPISODE DESCRIPTION In this episode, I sit down with Ian from CoinRoutes, recorded live at Token 2049. Ian has been building since he was 12 years old , starting with Myspace and web hosting , and today he runs one of the most established institutional crypto trading infrastructure companies in the space. We get into why funds can't just use Claude Code to build their own trading systems, what it actually costs to run institutional-grade infrastructure, and why tokenized equities are about to eat the entire offshore market. Ian also shares why TradFi and crypto are converging faster than most people realize, how AI is making hiring a nightmare, and why word of mouth is still the best customer acquisition channel in this industry. If you manage a fund, build trading systems, or want to understand how the institutional side of crypto actually works, this one is for you. DISCLAIMER Nothing mentioned in this podcast is investment advice and please do your own research. It would mean a lot if you can leave a review of this podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and share this podcast with a friend. Be a guest on the podcast or contact us - https://www.web3pod.xyz/ CONNECT CoinRoutes Website: https://coinroutes.com/ CoinRoutes Twitter/X: https://x.com/coinroutes Ian LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ianweisberger/?isSelfProfile=false Web3 with Sam Kamani: https://www.web3pod.xyz KEY POINTS WITH TIMESTAMPS • [00:00] Teaser: AI cheating in interviews, $2M/year infrastructure costs, and tokenized equities eating the offshore market • [01:30] Ian's background: learning to code at 12 on Myspace, running a web hosting business in high school, and how payment processor frustrations led him to crypto • [04:00] How Bitcoin ETF approvals unlocked 401k and brokerage account access to crypto, and what that means for institutional volume • [05:30] What CoinRoutes actually solves: multi-exchange trading, counterparty risk diversification, P&L reconciliation, and fund admin syncing • [07:00] The new bundled prime brokerage partnership with CRX Trade , one place for everything, soft dollar model • [08:30] Why funds can't just build their own systems with Claude Code: the real cost is servers, maintenance, and 4am on-call engineers • [10:30] AI is breaking hiring: Ian now flies people around the world to interview in person just to verify candidates aren't reading off a screen • [13:00] Why human-to-human relationships are becoming more valuable than ever in business development and sales • [15:00] TradFi and crypto converging: CME going 24/7, crypto solving weekend margin top-ups via stablecoin settlement rails • [17:00] The bifurcated market opportunity: trading firms sitting between offshore Asian exchanges and onshore US markets making 20%+ annual returns on cash • [19:00] Tokenized equities: why they won't take off for US investors but will be massive for offshore investors avoiding tax, inheritance, and FX costs • [21:30] What the industry still misunderstands: market access differences for US vs offshore investors, and opaque contract specs on crypto venues causing liquidations • [23:00] Best acquisition: buying a portfolio management system to vertically integrate the full client stack • [24:00] Best customer acquisition channel: word of mouth after 8 years of keeping clients happy

EPISODE DESCRIPTION I sat down live at Token 2049 in Singapore with Abdul from ZIG Finance to dig into how the industry has quietly shifted from hype to real adoption. We cover why blockchain was never really about speed or cutting out middlemen , it was always about access. Abdul shares how ZIG Finance evolved from a copy trading platform into a full institutional DeFi stack, why their tokenomics overhaul puts revenue back into the token, and what it actually takes to bring emerging market assets on-chain safely. We also get into why origination , not distribution, not technology , is the hardest problem in tokenization right now, and what a 70-year-old man in Karachi buying Tesla stock on his Trust Wallet tells us about where this industry is headed. DISCLAIMER Nothing mentioned in this podcast is investment advice and please do your own research. It would mean a lot if you can leave a review of this podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and share this podcast with a friend. Be a guest on the podcast or contact us - https://www.web3pod.xyz/ CONNECT ZIG Finance Website: https://zig.finance/ ZIG Finance Twitter/X: https://x.com/zigchain ZIG Finance LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zigfinance/home/ Abdul LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/argadit/?isSelfProfile=false Web3 with Sam Kamani: https://www.web3pod.xyz/ KEY POINTS WITH TIMESTAMPS • [0:00] Blockchain was built for access and equality, not just efficiency or removing middlemen • [1:12] Recording live at Token 2049 in Singapore , the event has shifted toward institutional focus • [2:26] Adoption looks boring but that's how real, lasting adoption works • [3:39] The education curve took 10 years; the adoption curve is arriving now • [5:39] ZIG Finance evolved from Zignali copy trading platform to a full institutional stack: ZIGmarkets, ZIGchain, and ZIGlabs • [6:29] May 2025 tokenomics overhaul ties token value to real commercial revenue, not just gas fees • [7:00] Gas fees have dropped 99%, breaking the traditional chain revenue model • [9:06] Hyperliquid proved the equity-like token model; Aave, Ondo, and Morpho are following • [11:07] Distribution beats product quality every time , WhatsApp, Facebook, Gmail all won on distribution, not features • [12:01] Taurus Network partnership connects ZIG Finance to 70 banks including 40 European banks • [15:18] Real use cases: Morpho, Ondo, Aave, Maple are building genuine utility • [15:52] A 70-year-old man in Karachi bought Tesla shares via Ondo on Trust Wallet , that's the use case • [16:33] Tokenization is a four-sided problem: originators, distributors, technology, and licensing • [17:03] More demand than supply right now , the challenge is finding quality assets, not investors • [20:47] Beehive partnership (owned by Etisalat/UAE sovereign entity): $150M+ deployed, zero NPLs • [19:49] GCC SME sector needs $650B in credit annually; banks only serve 11% of that • [23:16] Next 12 months: Apex, Taurus, World Liberty Finance partnerships, plus Sharia-compliant tokenization via Zamanas • [24:37] Biggest growth region: Middle East, North Africa, and South Asia