Coaches Rising

279 - Marvin Oka: The Nature of Second Order Leadership

Coaches Rising

Show Notes

In this conversation with Marvin Oka we explore neurobehavioral modelling as a lens for understanding change, leadership, and learning, examining the tension between stability and integration, the four types of change, and the cognitive capacities - such as metacognition and generative inquiry - required for second-order leadership. Moving from theory into practice, the episode explores leadership as an emergent property of systems, offering insights into whole-system change, the leadership anchorline, and how leaders and coaches can guide people from inner turbulence toward greater integration, flow, and adaptive development. For more resources, visit the podcast episode page https://www.coachesrising.com/podcast/the-nature-of-second-order-leadership-with-marvin-oka

Dive deeper into transformational coaching with us… Get Free Access to our Transformational Coaching Masterclass with Staci Haines — The Body Knows the Way: An embodied approach to coaching in times of collective uncertainty and stress. Staci will show you how to unlock the wisdom of the body so you can help your clients transform reactivity into resilience — even in the face of today’s challenges. Learn more and get the recording here.

More from Coaches Rising

Oct 21, 2026

In this conversation with Bob Dunham, we explore what it means to be human in the age of AI, distinguishing generative human creation from artificial intelligence and revealing the foundations of meaningful action, wisdom, and generative leadership. Bob shares how biology, language, commitments, and the stories we tell ourselves shape our experience of life, offering practical approaches to conscious life design and cultivating a paradigm of wholeness to create a more authentic, fulfilling life.

Oct 15, 2026

In this episode of the podcast with Shani Lehrer, we explore the invitation of these times for leaders to evolve, examining the importance of radical responsibility, uncovering the unconscious wounds and patterns that influence our personal and organisational lives, and reconnecting with the deeper foundations of sovereignty. Shani shares how leaders can reclaim and retrain their minds, harness creativity in service of the greater good, and recognise the power each of us holds to shape our organisations and collectively create a more positive future.

Oct 6, 2026

In this episode of the podcast with Benjamin J. Butler, we explore the turbulence of a world in transition, the innate goodness and creativity of human beings, and the possibility of a profound shift in consciousness as invisible structures and assumptions become visible. Benjamin shares his vision for a new civilisation rooted in local community, spirituality, presence and imagination, offering a sense of purpose, direction and hope for navigating these transformative times.

Sep 27, 2026

In this episode with Kari Zeller, we explore human agency and meaning in the age of AI, asking what remains uniquely human when artificial intelligence can increasingly perform cognitive tasks—and how existential intelligibility, placedness and our capacity to create the future shape our relationship with technology. Kari shares insights into supporting leaders and organisations to steward human intelligence, listen beyond the words of a system, harvest feedback from across the whole organisation, and move from individual performance towards leadership as a practice of creating and stewarding new contexts.

Sep 23, 2026

In this episode with Tatiana Bachkirova we explore the core challenges facing the coaching industry today, from the ethics of marketing and the promises coaches make to the growing influence of AI coaching and what it reveals about organisational values and human relationships. Tatiana shares her theory around bringing what she calls criticality into coaching, creating space for the client’s challenges, and developing the coach’s own selfhood, maturity and capacity to navigate the complexity that clients bring.

See all episodes →