SBP 232: SBP Interview - Why Innovation Fails Before the Idea Ever Gets a Chance. With Fiona Stevenson.
Sleeping Barber - A Marketing PodcastShow Notes
Why do organizations say innovation is mission-critical, then create conditions that make innovation almost impossible? Fiona Stevenson has spent her career on both sides of that problem. After 12 years at Procter & Gamble, she co-founded The Idea Suite, an innovation consultancy that has worked across hundreds of innovation projects. She is also the co-author of Built for Breakthrough: Why Innovation Fails and How Smart Leaders Get It Right. In this conversation, Fiona joins Marc and Vassilis to unpack why innovation usually fails long before the idea itself is tested. They explore the famous Febreze story and why understanding the actual consumer problem changed the brand’s trajectory, before getting into the organizational conditions required for innovation to survive. Fiona explains why big innovation ambitions often collide with tiny budgets, part-time teams and unrealistic timelines; why past data can become dangerous when designing for the future; and why innovators need to build evidence instead of waiting for certainty. The conversation also covers Fiona’s six-stage innovation framework: Identify → Insights → Inspiration → Ideation → Iteration → Implementation And perhaps a seventh: Intuition. Plus: Why “we should…” is not an idea Why “How might we?” is such a powerful innovation question How AI is dramatically lowering the cost of prototyping Why AI should be an input, not the final output How implementation destroys good ideas through “death by a thousand cuts” Why innovation needs dedicated time, not calendar scraps How to create an innovation charter Why the best first step is simply defining the problem properly If your organization wants innovation but struggles to actually get ideas into market, this episode is for you. Enjoy the show! Chapters: 00:00 Why Innovation Dies Before the Whiteboard 01:36 Meet Fiona Stevenson 02:16 From P&G to Innovation Consulting 04:07 Moving From Client Side to Consulting 05:41 The Febreze Innovation Story 09:09 Why Consumer Understanding Comes First 10:59 What Is Innovation, Really? 13:02 The Uber Opportunity Fiona Turned Down 14:24 Different Types of Innovation 16:23 Big Innovation Ambitions vs. Organizational Reality 17:44 Why Stakeholder Alignment Matters 20:16 The Innovation Charter 21:24 Fear and the Unknown 22:00 Why Past Data Can Mislead Innovation 23:48 Why Great Marketers Can Struggle With Innovation 25:29 Getting Innovation Out the Door 27:24 The Future Has No Data 28:04 Challenging Assumptions With First Principles 30:00 AI as a Tool for Building Evidence 32:00 AI, Prototyping and Creative Potential 32:51 AI Should Be an Input, Not the Output 34:15 “We Should” Is Not an Idea 36:03 Why “How Might We?” Changes the Conversation 37:39 Fiona’s Six I’s of Innovation 39:09 Insights, Inspiration & Ideation 40:28 Why Iteration Matters 41:53 Implementation and Death by a Thousand Cuts 42:18 Protecting the Idea’s DNA 42:45 Is Intuition the Seventh I? 45:05 Why Skipping Steps Kills Innovation 47:06 The Most Undervalued Stage 48:49 How Innovation Survives Budget Pressure 50:17 Why Innovation Can’t Be a Side Job 51:39 What to Do Monday Morning 53:48 Why Innovation Needs Champions 54:26 It’s Never Too Late to Redefine the Problem 55:41 Built for Breakthrough Resources 56:11 Where to Find Fiona Link to the book: Built for Breakthrough - https://www.builtforbreakthrough.com/
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Marketing runs on comfort blankets. The Sharp Cut cuts them up to see what’s inside. This week, with Black Friday five weeks out and someone already writing the 40% off email: the idea that a discount wins you new business. Here’s the spine. A discount rents you this week’s sales, mostly from your own customers. When the price goes back up, the rental’s over. So every promotion has to pay for itself while it’s running. This week: → Who actually buys on the deal. Ehrenberg-Bass looked across 18 categories: 77% of promo buyers had already bought the brand in their last five trips, against 81% at full price. Basically the same people, paying less. → How long the bump lasts. Soup and yogurt promotions faded in about two weeks, and in only 1 of 29 cases did a deal change sales for good. Then the dip, and people learning to wait for your price. → The math nobody runs. At 20% off with a 50% margin you need two-thirds more sales just to stand still. A German retailer celebrated a 19%-off sale that needed triple the traffic to break even. → Three people, three kinds of math. The store, the supplier, and the salesperson are each optimizing something different, and the brand on sale is usually renting its own buyers back. → What actually works. You can’t quit cold (ask JC Penney). McCain pulled promotions back slowly and moved the money into brand, and nine years later sells more chips at a higher price. Plus the one takeaway: a discount gives the people who already buy from you a cheaper week, and you often pay for it twice. Enjoy the show! Stories & evidence this episode: Which? Black Friday investigation: https://www.which.co.uk/policy-and-insight/article/dont-believe-the-hype-most-black-friday-deals-the-same-price-or-cheaper-at-other-times-of-the-year-which-finds-a3TbD5x5KADs Ehrenberg-Bass / John Dawes, price promotions and buyer mix (SSRN): https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2199169 McCain, “When the chips are down, margins matter” (IPA): https://ipa.co.uk/knowledge/case-studies/when-the-chips-are-down-margins-matter-how-a-focus-on-long-term-emotional-brand-building-reduced-price-elasticity-and-increased-profits-for-mccain The Evidence Line (180+ models): https://quatical.com
Marc and V are back with the Barber’s Brief: the good, the bad, and the overhyped from the last couple of weeks, with data, a few opinions, and Great Creative getting the last word. This week: → Apple built itself a kill switch for ad tech. iOS 26’s Safari can quietly block hundreds of identity and data vendors, the list lives in a private repo, and only Apple knows the rules. Everyone’s calling it a privacy story. It’s a power story, and the real lesson is one we keep coming back to: stop renting your audience. → Phantom Reach. Ritson and Lumen clocked the same ad getting 16 seconds of attention on a living room TV and about 1.5 seconds in a web video player. Both count as one impression on your plan. So ask your agency for attentive seconds, not impressions. → Jaguar is finally coupled with a product. The rebrand tested with more 1s and 2s, and more 9s and 10s, than anything in its history. Polarizing is right for a six-figure niche. It’s a terrible lesson for a mass-market brand to copy. → Mbappé leaves Nike for On, part cash, part equity. The Jordan playbook, run against Nike, while On climbs and Nike slides. Plus Ad of the Week: Robitussin hires a deadpan cough hitman named Robby Tussin, and turns the brand name into the character, the joke, and the mnemonic all at once. Coming up: Joanna Lepore of Dig Insights on foresight and strategy. Enjoy the show! Chapters 00:00 Intro: welcome back to the Barber's Brief 00:51 Story 1: Apple's kill switch for ad tech 04:53 Why is so much of the industry built on rented land? 08:20 Story 2: Phantom Reach, attention vs impressions 10:48 Selling attentive seconds instead of impressions 13:18 How the platforms are moving (Meridian, Andromeda, MMM) 14:34 Story 3: Jaguar, finally coupled with a product 16:43 Polarization as a scalpel, not a strategy 17:48 Controversy with a product vs controversy for its own sake 20:47 Story 4: Mbappé leaves Nike for On 23:08 Do challenger-brand signings change how retailers buy? 25:35 Ad of the Week: Robitussin's cough hitman, Robby Tussin 28:03 Why the one-character platform beats weekly fresh creative 29:09 Coming up: Joanna Lepore, Dig Insights Hosts Marc Binkley Quatical - https://quatical.com/ LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcbinkley/ Vassilis Douros Personal Website: https://vassilisdouros.com LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/vassilisdouros/ Stories this week Apple’s ad-tech kill switch (AdExchanger): https://www.adexchanger.com/privacy/apple-has-far-reaching-plans-to-block-hundreds-of-programmatic-data-companies-from-ios/ Phantom Reach — Mark Ritson (The Drum): https://www.thedrum.com/opinion/why-the-reach-of-one-rule-is-built-on-ads-nobody-ever-actually-sees Jaguar’s rebrand meets its product (Marketing Week): https://www.marketingweek.com/jaguars-rebrand-product/ Mbappé leaves Nike for On (Yahoo Sports): https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/kylian-mbappe-drops-nike-sponsorship-045914241.html
Everybody in this industry is arguing about what AI does to an agency. Almost all of it is agencies talking to themselves about their own cost structure. Clients are asking something else entirely. So Marc and V put the real question to two of the people growing Canada’s agency business while the ground moves under it: if you are not selling hours, what are you selling? Mélanie Dunn is President of Plus Company Canada and CEO of Cossette. Karine Courtemanche is EVP of Plus Company Canada and President of its media group, Strategy’s 2024 Media Leader of the Year, Chair of the Canadian Media Directors’ Council. Inside the conversation: why clients now buy a connected system of tools rather than time, and why the shift off billable hours is being stalled by clients, not agencies. The biggest myth in the business, and the KPI guarantee they sold three times out of hundreds of clients. Why your agency’s tech stack is now a reason to hire them. In-housing done for the right and wrong reasons. Rethinking talent when the pyramid is gone and a junior can mentor a senior. And a genuine cry for help on supporting Canadian media, where the gap between an ethical placement and a cheaper one is often marginal. The through line: agencies are being pushed to stop selling time and start selling judgment, and nobody has solved how you build judgment at scale. Enjoy the episode! Our Guests: Mélanie Dunn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dunnmelanie/ Karine Courtemanche: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karine-courtemanche-64896330/ Chapters: 00:00 The best time to be in this business 00:46 Barbell or pyramid? Setting up the debate 02:43 What is the role of a modern agency? 06:51 What clients actually buy now: a system, not hours 09:25 If you're not selling time, what are you selling? 12:51 The biggest myth: agencies do want outcomes 15:15 Why outcome models stall: predictability and risk 17:45 Attribution as the missing accountability layer 19:16 Choosing an agency on its tools, not just its people 22:05 Three conditions for integration that actually works 23:57 In-housing, for the right reasons 27:08 Why there is no single agency model 29:22 Building operational platforms, not just media tools 31:36 AI, governance, and building the same tool twice 34:19 Rethinking talent when the pyramid is gone 36:44 Hiring now: references, soft skills, hard questions 45:30 Monday takeaways: governance as an enabler 49:13 A cry for help on Canadian media 57:02 Calgary, and the centre of the world
Marketing runs on comfort blankets. The Sharp Cut cuts them up to see what's inside. This week: brand love. Start with motorcycles. In 2015, the happiest owners in the entire category rode Victory, ahead of Harley. Two years later, Polaris shut Victory down. The happiest customers in the category could not keep the brand alive. That should bother anyone who spent a career being told marketing's job is to make people love you. So Marc and V take the believers at their word and run three tests on lovemarks, raving fans, and brand love. Are the most loved brands the biggest? Are they growing the fastest? Does the love come first, before the buying? The evidence, from the ACSI to double jeopardy to ten years of Ehrenberg-Bass data, keeps pointing the same way. Then they own up to it. Marc's Heinz loyalty that is really just shelf placement. V's Golf Town thank-you notes, where every bit of love showed up after the money was already in the books. The conclusion is not that love is worthless. It protects you, and losing it hurts. It just is not what grows a brand. Plus what to do with all of this on Monday. Chapters 00:00 What the Sharp Cut is 00:45 Today's comfort blanket: brand love 00:50 Victory vs Harley: the happiest owners, gone in two years 02:36 Where the idea came from 05:43 The money angle, and the JC Penney lovemark 06:28 The case for love, taken seriously 08:33 Three tests for the believers 08:59 Test 1: are the most loved brands the biggest? 10:20 Double jeopardy, and why loyalty is everywhere 12:04 The Apple challenge 12:45 Test 2: do loved brands grow the fastest? 15:12 Test 3: does love come first? 18:17 Confessions: Heinz, Matouk's, and the Golf Town tees 22:04 So is love a moat? The Kroger debate 24:14 Do people even want a relationship with a brand? 26:31 What to do Monday
Marc and V are back with the Barber's Brief: the good, the bad, and the overhyped, with data, a few opinions, and Great Creative getting the last word.