Show Notes
If you've ever wondered whether creative writing can actually be taught—or felt discouraged by a workshop, MFA program, or critique group—this conversation is for you. In Part 1 of this two-part conversation, Mary Adkins sits down with bestselling novelist and Book Incubator instructor Rufi Thorpe to unpack the writing education they wish they'd had. They discuss why traditional workshop models often fall short, what makes great writing instruction, and why no teacher can tell you whether you "have what it takes" to become a writer. Whether you're just starting your first novel or deep into revisions, this episode offers an honest look at what actually helps writers grow. In this episode, you'll learn: • Why many creative writing workshops fail to teach craft• How teaching has made both Mary and Rufi better novelists• Why talent is overrated—and persistence matters more• How to identify what makes your writing uniquely yours• Why commercial and literary fiction have more in common than most people think This is Part 1 of a two-part conversation. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss Part 2, where Mary and Rufi discuss what *can't* be taught about writing, the biggest fears they have as writing teachers, their favorite writing advice, and why revision isn't what most writers think it is. Rufi Thorpe is the author of the novels The Knockout Queen (Pen/Faulkner Finalist); Dear Fang, With Love; The Girls from Corona Del Mar (long listed for Dylan Thomas Prize & First Novel Prize); and Margo’s Got Money Troubles (finalist for the 2024 Kirkus Prize for Fiction, winner of the Clark Fiction Prize, and now an AppleTV mini-series). She's also the revision instructor inside The Book Incubator. Come learn from Rufi! thebookincubator.com Love the show? Share it with a fellow writer or leave a review! For more resources, visit thebookincubator.com. Want to watch the video episodes? Visit https://www.youtube.com/@maryadkins Let's connect! Come say hi on Instagram: @book.incubator Happy writing! — Mary ======================== RESOURCES: + Ready to write your dream book? Apply for The Book Incubator with no obligation to enroll and get my free training HOW TO WRITE AN (ACTUALLY) GOOD BOOK IN 45 MINUTES A DAY: https://www.thebookincubator.com/ + A Novel in 52 Prompts - A scene-by-scene blueprint for writing your novel:https://www.thebookincubator.com/novel-in-52-prompts ======================== Hi, I'm Mary! I'm the author of the novels When You Read This (Indie Next Pick and “Best Book of 2019” by Good Housekeeping), Privilege (Today.com “Best Summer Read”), and Palm Beach (New York Post “Best Book of 2021” and “like a sandy beach, equal parts beautiful and uncomfortable” according to the Associated Press). My memoir, You Might Feel A Little Pressure, was released by Third Rail Press in 2025. My books have been published in 13 countries, and I've written for the New York Times, The Atlantic, Slate, and more. I founded an MFA-alternative, The Book Incubator, which has now helped hundreds of writers finish their books over 12 months and continues supporting them through publication (yes, forever!). When I’m not writing, I’m probably building a fort with my 7-year-old son Finn or bathing with an overpriced Lush bath bomb. I live in Dallas, where I spend my free time trying to domesticate a stubborn tabby and shamelessly watching reality TV. ======================== Social: + Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/book.incubator ========================
More from The First Draft Club
If your draft comes in under the standard word count for your genre, you've probably heard some version of the same advice: don't think about length, just find where the story's thin and fix that. I get why people say it, but I don't love it. So in this episode, instead of the vague "just improve the story" advice, I wanted to hand you something more concrete: an actual process for figuring out where to add length, and how to do it without the whole task feeling impossibly huge. Love the show? Share it with a fellow writer or leave a review! For more resources, visit thebookincubator.com. Want to watch the video episodes? Visit https://www.youtube.com/@maryadkins Let's connect! Come say hi on Instagram: @book.incubator Happy writing! — Mary ======================== RESOURCES: Ready to write your dream book? Apply for The Book Incubator with no obligation to enroll and get my free training HOW TO WRITE AN (ACTUALLY) GOOD BOOK IN 45 MINUTES A DAY: https://www.thebookincubator.com/ A Novel in 52 Prompts - A scene-by-scene blueprint for writing your novel:https://www.thebookincubator.com/novel-in-52-prompts ======================== Hi, I'm Mary! I'm the author of the novels When You Read This (Indie Next Pick and “Best Book of 2019” by Good Housekeeping), Privilege (Today.com “Best Summer Read”), and Palm Beach (New York Post “Best Book of 2021” and “like a sandy beach, equal parts beautiful and uncomfortable” according to the Associated Press). My memoir, You Might Feel A Little Pressure, was released by Third Rail Press in 2025. My books have been published in 13 countries, and I've written for the New York Times, The Atlantic, Slate, and more. I founded an MFA-alternative, The Book Incubator, which has now helped hundreds of writers finish their books over 12 months and continues supporting them through publication (yes, forever!). When I’m not writing, I’m probably building a fort with my 7-year-old son Finn or bathing with an overpriced Lush bath bomb. I live in Dallas, where I spend my free time trying to domesticate a stubborn tabby and shamelessly watching reality TV. ======================== Social: + Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/book.incubator
In her bestselling 2025 memoir The Tell, written with ghostwriter Sam Lansky, Amy Griffin describes having no memory of her childhood sexual abuse until an MDMA therapy session. But in a recent interview with New York Magazine, Griffin reveals she'd not, in fact, fully repressed it. Mary is joined by her Third Rail Press co-founder Alle Mudrick, author of the award-winning memoir Blue Hour Homecoming (https://www.thirdrailpress.org/books/blue-hour-homecoming), to talk about what that choice means for the book, for readers, and for Griffin herself. We discuss: - The difference between minor and major changes in memoir- The role and obligations of a memoir ghostwriter- How this mischaracterization has likely enabled the massive backlash Griffin has received You can find Jessica Bennet's article in The Cut here: https://www.thecut.com/article/amy-griffin-the-tell-defends-herself-against-new-lawsuit.html Love the show? Share it with a fellow writer or leave a review! For more resources, visit thebookincubator.com. Want to watch the video episodes? Visit https://www.youtube.com/@maryadkins Let's connect! Come say hi on Instagram: @book.incubator Happy writing! — Mary ======================== RESOURCES: Ready to write your dream book? Apply for The Book Incubator with no obligation to enroll and get my free training HOW TO WRITE AN (ACTUALLY) GOOD BOOK IN 45 MINUTES A DAY: https://www.thebookincubator.com/ A Novel in 52 Prompts - A scene-by-scene blueprint for writing your novel:https://www.thebookincubator.com/novel-in-52-prompts ======================== Hi, I'm Mary! I'm the author of the novels When You Read This (Indie Next Pick and “Best Book of 2019” by Good Housekeeping), Privilege (Today.com “Best Summer Read”), and Palm Beach (New York Post “Best Book of 2021” and “like a sandy beach, equal parts beautiful and uncomfortable” according to the Associated Press). My memoir, You Might Feel A Little Pressure, was released by Third Rail Press in 2025. My books have been published in 13 countries, and I've written for the New York Times, The Atlantic, Slate, and more. I founded an MFA-alternative, The Book Incubator, which has now helped hundreds of writers finish their books over 12 months and continues supporting them through publication (yes, forever!). When I’m not writing, I’m probably building a fort with my 7-year-old son Finn or bathing with an overpriced Lush bath bomb. I live in Dallas, where I spend my free time trying to domesticate a stubborn tabby and shamelessly watching reality TV. ======================== Social: + Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/book.incubator
This is part two of my conversation with memoirist Greg Marshall. In our conversation, we cover how to write a better paragraph, a technique Greg calls "literary Mad Libs," and how nonfiction writers should use all the same tools that fiction writers do. About Greg: Greg Marshall is the author of Leg: The Story of a Limb and the Boy Who Grew from It (2023) and The Book Incubator's current memoirist-in-residence. He's a National Endowment for the Arts Fellow in Prose and a graduate of the Michener Center for Writers, and his work has appeared in The Best American Essays and been supported by MacDowell and the Corporation of Yaddo. Greg grew up in Salt Lake City, Utah, and now lives in Austin, TX, with his husband, novelist Lucas Schaefer (author of The Slip, winner of the Kirkus Prize), their son, and their dog. Love the show? Share it with a fellow writer or leave a review! For more resources, visit thebookincubator.com. Want to watch the video episodes? Visit https://www.youtube.com/@maryadkins Let's connect! Come say hi on Instagram: @book.incubator Happy writing! — Mary ======================== RESOURCES: + Ready to write your dream book? Apply for The Book Incubator with no obligation to enroll and get my free training HOW TO WRITE AN (ACTUALLY) GOOD BOOK IN 45 MINUTES A DAY: https://www.thebookincubator.com/ + A Novel in 52 Prompts - A scene-by-scene blueprint for writing your novel:https://www.thebookincubator.com/novel-in-52-prompts ======================== Hi, I'm Mary! I'm the author of the novels When You Read This (Indie Next Pick and “Best Book of 2019” by Good Housekeeping), Privilege (Today.com “Best Summer Read”), and Palm Beach (New York Post “Best Book of 2021” and “like a sandy beach, equal parts beautiful and uncomfortable” according to the Associated Press). My memoir, You Might Feel A Little Pressure, was released by Third Rail Press in 2025. My books have been published in 13 countries, and I've written for the New York Times, The Atlantic, Slate, and more. I founded an MFA-alternative, The Book Incubator, which has now helped hundreds of writers finish their books over 12 months and continues supporting them through publication (yes, forever!). When I’m not writing, I’m probably building a fort with my 7-year-old son Finn or bathing with an overpriced Lush bath bomb. I live in Dallas, where I spend my free time trying to domesticate a stubborn tabby and shamelessly watching reality TV. ======================== Social: + Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/book.incubator
This week I'm talking with my dear friend Greg Marshall, our memoir instructor inside the Book Incubator. Greg talks about how he wrote his own memoir, Leg, and how he didn't abandon the material in early drafts when it wasn't working. He just kept circling the same stories and recombining them until they found their shape. We also get into one of my favorite ideas from this conversation: "narrative perch," the question of exactly who is telling the story you're reading. We also talk about how nailing that down lets a memoirist time-travel through their own life without losing the reader. Make sure to come back next week for part two of this conversation, where Greg breaks down how to write a better paragraph. About Greg: Greg Marshall is the author of Leg: The Story of a Limb and the Boy Who Grew from It (2023) and The Book Incubator's current memoirist-in-residence. He's a National Endowment for the Arts Fellow in Prose and a graduate of the Michener Center for Writers, and his work has appeared in The Best American Essays and been supported by MacDowell and the Corporation of Yaddo. Greg grew up in Salt Lake City, Utah, and now lives in Austin, TX, with his husband, novelist Lucas Schaefer (author of The Slip, winner of the Kirkus Prize), their son, and their dog. Love the show? Share it with a fellow writer or leave a review! For more resources, visit thebookincubator.com. Want to watch the video episodes? Visit https://www.youtube.com/@maryadkins Let's connect! Come say hi on Instagram: @book.incubator Happy writing! — Mary ======================== RESOURCES: Ready to write your dream book? Apply for The Book Incubator with no obligation to enroll and get my free training HOW TO WRITE AN (ACTUALLY) GOOD BOOK IN 45 MINUTES A DAY: https://www.thebookincubator.com/ A Novel in 52 Prompts - A scene-by-scene blueprint for writing your novel:https://www.thebookincubator.com/novel-in-52-prompts ======================== Hi, I'm Mary! I'm the author of the novels When You Read This (Indie Next Pick and “Best Book of 2019” by Good Housekeeping), Privilege (Today.com “Best Summer Read”), and Palm Beach (New York Post “Best Book of 2021” and “like a sandy beach, equal parts beautiful and uncomfortable” according to the Associated Press). My memoir, You Might Feel A Little Pressure, was released by Third Rail Press in 2025. My books have been published in 13 countries, and I've written for the New York Times, The Atlantic, Slate, and more. I founded an MFA-alternative, The Book Incubator, which has now helped hundreds of writers finish their books over 12 months and continues supporting them through publication (yes, forever!). When I’m not writing, I’m probably building a fort with my 7-year-old son Finn or bathing with an overpriced Lush bath bomb. I live in Dallas, where I spend my free time trying to domesticate a stubborn tabby and shamelessly watching reality TV. ======================== Social: + Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/book.incubator
Register for my free workshop, How Much Money Can You Make On Your Book?, at workshop.thebookincubator.com. Live on Sep 10th or register to get the replay! Publishing is a black box for aspiring authors. You don't know what you don't know about the industry. But Publishers Marketplace is an aspiring author's best untapped resource — the most useful resource you don't know you're missing until you have it. In this episode, I'm showing you what it is, how to use it, and why this website where publishing professionals report their book deals can be your most useful tool when preparing to get a literary agent and a book deal. Love the show? Share it with a fellow writer or leave a review! For more resources, visit thebookincubator.com. Want to watch the video episodes? Visit https://www.youtube.com/@maryadkins Let's connect! Come say hi on Instagram: @book.incubator Happy writing! — Mary ======================== RESOURCES: + Ready to write your dream book? Apply for The Book Incubator with no obligation to enroll and get my free training HOW TO WRITE AN (ACTUALLY) GOOD BOOK IN 45 MINUTES A DAY: https://www.thebookincubator.com/ + A Novel in 52 Prompts - A scene-by-scene blueprint for writing your novel:https://www.thebookincubator.com/novel-in-52-prompts ======================== Hi, I'm Mary! I'm the author of the novels When You Read This (Indie Next Pick and “Best Book of 2019” by Good Housekeeping), Privilege (Today.com “Best Summer Read”), and Palm Beach (New York Post “Best Book of 2021” and “like a sandy beach, equal parts beautiful and uncomfortable” according to the Associated Press). My memoir, You Might Feel A Little Pressure, was released by Third Rail Press in 2025. My books have been published in 13 countries, and I've written for the New York Times, The Atlantic, Slate, and more. I founded an MFA-alternative, The Book Incubator, which has now helped hundreds of writers finish their books over 12 months and continues supporting them through publication (yes, forever!). When I’m not writing, I’m probably building a fort with my 7-year-old son Finn or bathing with an overpriced Lush bath bomb. I live in Dallas, where I spend my free time trying to domesticate a stubborn tabby and shamelessly watching reality TV. ======================== Social: + Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/book.incubator