7. Making loud mistakes: The serious business of play in community music with Jane York

In this episode, Fiona joins Melissa to unpack why so many adults quietly believe they "can't sing", and what gets lost when we stop. They trace the individual, cultural, economic and technological forces that pushed singing out of everyday life, explore the idea of voice shame, and talk about why Fiona prefers to run singing circles rather than choirs. The conversation moves through the concept of singing as a "homecoming," the case for calling singing facilitators leaders, and practical ways to bring singing back into unexpected places—meetings, workplaces, aged care, and the school run. Key Topics Discussed

Melissa speaks with Enya Cai, General Manager of Creativity Australia, the national charity behind the With One Voice choir network. With 26 choirs across Australia and a mission to end loneliness through group singing, Creativity Australia sits at a fascinating intersection of community music, social inclusion, and organisational leadership. Enya brings a rare perspective: a childhood spent in the Australian Girls Choir, a career spanning accounting, diversity and inclusion, government policy, and arts management, and a longstanding connection to Creativity Australia that began when she was a teenager volunteering with the organisation. In this conversation, she reflects on what community choir facilitators have in common with corporate leaders, how loneliness really shows up in the people who walk through choir doors, and why patience might be the most underrated skill in both music and life.

For Graham Sattler, being a musical inclusion advocate means building a life's work around a single conviction: that music is the activity with the fewest impediments to participation. In this episode, Melissa talks with Graham about the journey that took him from the opera stage and the orchestral trombone section to the heart of community music practice, and the moment in Orange, New South Wales, that crystallised everything. Graham shares what he found when his Churchill Fellowship took him across eight countries investigating best-practice community music leadership training, and why the musicians he met were so strikingly clear about the why, how, and what of their work. He reflects on confidence, courage, and intrinsic motivation as essential leadership qualities; on generosity, compassion, and selflessness as the values that underpin effective practice; and on what happens to a community when leadership changes and those qualities disappear. The conversation also turns to orchestras — Graham is currently CEO of the Christchurch Symphony Orchestra — and what it takes for professional performance organisations to engage authentically with community, rather than as a funding exercise. Honest, thoughtful, and full of hard-won insight, this is a conversation about what it really means to lead music that matters. Key Topics Discussed

Joel Carnegie—conductor, broadcaster, and storyteller—talks about Awkwardstra Geelong, a community orchestra that is quietly doing some of the most important social work in the business. Joel shares how he came to Awkwardstra after a demanding period in his professional life, and why the experience fundamentally changed how he thinks about music and leadership. This episode is a masterclass in what inclusive, values-driven music-making can look like in practice. Joel also reflects on his background as a storyteller and how narrative — including the music itself — can convey the value of community music in ways statistics simply can't. Drawing on his training in acting methods and voice work, he offers a thoughtful account of what it means to lead from the podium with empathy, clarity, and a willingness to sit with uncertainty. This conversation is full of practical wisdom and genuine inspiration.

Dr Belinda Densley has spent more than 30 years facilitating community singing groups in Geelong, Victoria, and over that time she came to understand that the work was never really about the voice. It was about the mechanics of heart, soul, and mind. That realisation led her through a Masters in Counselling and Psychotherapy and ultimately to a recently completed PhD, in which she developed a grounded theory of group singing facilitation she calls Creating Song Magic. In this episode, Belinda unpacks that theory, exploring the four core dimensions of the facilitator's role: advocating for people's right to sing, curating repertoire that creates meaningful experiences, welcoming and sustaining harmonious expression in the room, and contributing to the transformation of communities. She also speaks candidly about the "hidden work" that singing facilitators do — work that has remained largely invisible, under-resourced, and poorly defined, even within music and community health sectors. We talk about what it means to reframe the singing facilitator as a community health resource, the importance of boundary-setting and reflective practice, and why Belinda believes trauma-informed relational skills should be foundational to any future training for facilitators. She also shares a deeply moving story about a love-and-loss singing session that rippled far beyond the room.