Show Notes
This episode of Death and Dirt is essential listening not only for law firm owners, but also for attorneys and professionals who are thinking about buying into a firm or acquiring an ownership interest. We sit down with Owen T. Carhart, Managing Partner of Business Optimization Group, LLC, to break down what business valuation actually means in the context of a law practice and why it matters long before any sale is on the horizon. Owen challenges the common misconception that a firm is nothing more than the owner’s personal book of business and explains how real value is driven by cash flow, risk, and transferability. Along the way, we demystify the language of valuation—SDE, EBITDA, and KPIs—and walk through the core approaches used to determine what a firm is truly worth. From there, the conversation turns to the operational realities that either build or destroy value over time. Owen explains how revenue quality, client concentration, and owner dependence can significantly impact valuation, and why buyers heavily discount firms that rely too much on one person. We also discuss the systems, financial discipline, leadership structure, and repeatable processes that make a firm more transferable and more valuable. The key takeaway: valuation isn’t a one-time exercise—it’s the byproduct of running a well-structured business. Whether you plan to sell, bring on a partner, or eventually buy into a firm yourself, understanding these fundamentals can change how you build and evaluate a practice.
~~~ Jennifer Galloway - Jenn attended Elizabethtown College, double majored in Criminal Justice and Political Science, always planning to attend law school. She graduated Summa Cum Laude from Duquesne University School of Law, in Pittsburgh, and moved back to York County, where she currently resides and works. After just over a decade in private practice in estate planning, estate and trust administration and Orphans’ Court litigation, Jenn recently joined Counsel Trust Company as their Chief Fiduciary Officer. In this new role, she oversees the trust operations and administrations department back office and team of financial advisors, and was happy to trade the billable hour for a bit more structure. Jay Hagerman - Jay earned a degree in American history at Gettysburg College. During that time, he worked in the White House Office of Correspondence in Washington, D.C. He attended Duquesne University School of Law, focusing his time learning about laws relating to wealth creation and preservation. He founded the elder law firm Abernethy & Hagerman, where he currently works. Jay resides in Hampton Township with his wife and family, which allows him to serve clients throughout Western Pennsylvania. Fred Long - Fred Long is a partner at Long Brightbill, a law firm based in Lebanon, Pennsylvania. His practice is focused on estate planning, trust and estate administration, probate, and real estate transactions. Fred holds an Estate Planning Certificate from Temple University Beasley School of Law and earned a Juris Doctor from Widener University School of Law, graduating with honors. Additionally, he has a Bachelor of Science in Communications with a Minor in Economics from Susquehanna University. In addition to his professional work, Fred is actively involved in community organizations and enjoys spending time with his family and friends, engaging in outdoor activities such as mountain biking, hiking, camping, skiing, and exploring the Pennsylvania wilderness.
*audio editing & music by Nick DeMatteo
More from Death and Dirt
What really happens after someone dies? From the first phone call to the funeral home to what happens to the human body, there's a lot about death that most people never see or understand. In this episode of Death & Dirt, hosts Fred Long, Jenn Galloway, and Jay Hagerman sit down with funeral director Chad Snyder and funeral preplanning specialist and certified celebrant Julia Spittal for a fascinating conversation about what happens behind the scenes in the funeral industry. We discuss the natural changes that occur after death, embalming, cremation, burial alternatives, and some of the surprising questions funeral directors encounter. Beyond the practical details, we explore the human side of the profession—helping families navigate loss, preserving dignity, and how working so closely with death shapes the way we think about life. ~~~ Jennifer Galloway - Jenn attended Elizabethtown College, double majored in Criminal Justice and Political Science, always planning to attend law school. She graduated Summa Cum Laude from Duquesne University School of Law, in Pittsburgh, and moved back to York County, where she currently resides and works. After just over a decade in private practice in estate planning, estate and trust administration and Orphans’ Court litigation, Jenn recently joined Counsel Trust Company as their Chief Fiduciary Officer. In this new role, she oversees the trust operations and administrations department back office and team of financial advisors, and was happy to trade the billable hour for a bit more structure. Jay Hagerman - Jay earned a degree in American history at Gettysburg College. During that time, he worked in the White House Office of Correspondence in Washington, D.C. He attended Duquesne University School of Law, focusing his time learning about laws relating to wealth creation and preservation. He founded the elder law firm Abernethy & Hagerman, where he currently works. Jay resides in Hampton Township with his wife and family, which allows him to serve clients throughout Western Pennsylvania. Fred Long - Fred Long is a partner at Long Brightbill, a law firm based in Lebanon, Pennsylvania. His practice is focused on estate planning, trust and estate administration, probate, and real estate transactions. Fred holds an Estate Planning Certificate from Temple University Beasley School of Law and earned a Juris Doctor from Widener University School of Law, graduating with honors. Additionally, he has a Bachelor of Science in Communications with a Minor in Economics from Susquehanna University. In addition to his professional work, Fred is actively involved in community organizations and enjoys spending time with his family and friends, engaging in outdoor activities such as mountain biking, hiking, camping, skiing, and exploring the Pennsylvania wilderness.
In this episode of Death & Dirt, the microphone turns to co-host Jenn Galloway. After more than a decade in private practice as a trusts and estates attorney, Jenn moved from drafting trusts to administering them as Chief Fiduciary Officer of Counsel Trust Company. She shares what she now understands differently, the drafting choices that matter most in real-world trust administration, and the conversations attorneys should have with clients before a trustee is named. The discussion also explores the human side of fiduciary decision-making, the realities of working with families and money, and what Jenn wishes she had known from the other side of the table—followed by a lightning round that settles everything from HEMS versus absolute discretion to Wawa versus Sheetz. ~~~ Jennifer Galloway - Jenn attended Elizabethtown College, double majored in Criminal Justice and Political Science, always planning to attend law school. She graduated Summa Cum Laude from Duquesne University School of Law, in Pittsburgh, and moved back to York County, where she currently resides and works. After just over a decade in private practice in estate planning, estate and trust administration and Orphans’ Court litigation, Jenn recently joined Counsel Trust Company as their Chief Fiduciary Officer. In this new role, she oversees the trust operations and administrations department back office and team of financial advisors, and was happy to trade the billable hour for a bit more structure. Jay Hagerman - Jay earned a degree in American history at Gettysburg College. During that time, he worked in the White House Office of Correspondence in Washington, D.C. He attended Duquesne University School of Law, focusing his time learning about laws relating to wealth creation and preservation. He founded the elder law firm Abernethy & Hagerman, where he currently works. Jay resides in Hampton Township with his wife and family, which allows him to serve clients throughout Western Pennsylvania. Fred Long - Fred Long is a partner at Long Brightbill, a law firm based in Lebanon, Pennsylvania. His practice is focused on estate planning, trust and estate administration, probate, and real estate transactions. Fred holds an Estate Planning Certificate from Temple University Beasley School of Law and earned a Juris Doctor from Widener University School of Law, graduating with honors. Additionally, he has a Bachelor of Science in Communications with a Minor in Economics from Susquehanna University. In addition to his professional work, Fred is actively involved in community organizations and enjoys spending time with his family and friends, engaging in outdoor activities such as mountain biking, hiking, camping, skiing, and exploring the Pennsylvania wilderness.
In this episode of Death and Dirt, Jenn and Jay turn the tables on co-host Fred Long. Fred shares how he found his way into the practice of law, reflects on his career and experiences as an attorney, and reveals a few things about his life that listeners may not know. Then, the conversation turns to three issues Fred has encountered repeatedly in his estate practice—issues that may seem relatively harmless during life but can create unexpected problems after someone dies. What happens when a parent co-signs a child's mortgage and ends up on the deed? What happens when divorced spouses never fully separate their property or update how assets are titled? And what happens when someone dies with substantial assets, but leaves the estate without enough liquidity to pay taxes, expenses, and the costs of administration? Drawing from real-world situations, Fred discusses how these problems surface, the complications they can create after death, and some practical considerations for attorneys and clients who want to avoid them. Along the way, Jenn and Jay get to know the person behind the microphone—and find out how a would-be journalist ended up talking about death, deeds, and taxes for a living. ~~~ Jennifer Galloway - Jenn attended Elizabethtown College, double majored in Criminal Justice and Political Science, always planning to attend law school. She graduated Summa Cum Laude from Duquesne University School of Law, in Pittsburgh, and moved back to York County, where she currently resides and works. After just over a decade in private practice in estate planning, estate and trust administration and Orphans’ Court litigation, Jenn recently joined Counsel Trust Company as their Chief Fiduciary Officer. In this new role, she oversees the trust operations and administrations department back office and team of financial advisors, and was happy to trade the billable hour for a bit more structure. Jay Hagerman - Jay earned a degree in American history at Gettysburg College. During that time, he worked in the White House Office of Correspondence in Washington, D.C. He attended Duquesne University School of Law, focusing his time learning about laws relating to wealth creation and preservation. He founded the elder law firm Abernethy & Hagerman, where he currently works. Jay resides in Hampton Township with his wife and family, which allows him to serve clients throughout Western Pennsylvania. Fred Long - Fred Long is a partner at Long Brightbill, a law firm based in Lebanon, Pennsylvania. His practice is focused on estate planning, trust and estate administration, probate, and real estate transactions. Fred holds an Estate Planning Certificate from Temple University Beasley School of Law and earned a Juris Doctor from Widener University School of Law, graduating with honors. Additionally, he has a Bachelor of Science in Communications with a Minor in Economics from Susquehanna University. In addition to his professional work, Fred is actively involved in community organizations and enjoys spending time with his family and friends, engaging in outdoor activities such as mountain biking, hiking, camping, skiing, and exploring the Pennsylvania wilderness.
In this episode of Death and Dirt, we are joined by Kristen Del Grosso, Senior Vice President and Market Leader for Central Pennsylvania at PNC Private Bank, and Kimberly Pennell, Vice President and Senior Wealth Strategist at PNC Private Bank. Together, we discuss why estate planning, wealth strategy, tax planning, and financial advising cannot operate in silos—and how stronger collaboration among attorneys, financial advisors, and CPAs leads to better outcomes for clients. Our conversation explores how estate planning documents are implemented after they're signed, the importance of aligning beneficiary designations and asset titling with a client's overall estate plan, and the role financial institutions play in carrying out a client's intentions. We also discuss common breakdowns in communication among advisors, practical ways to improve coordination, and opportunities for attorneys to build stronger relationships with financial professionals. Whether you are an estate planning attorney, fiduciary litigator, financial advisor, CPA, or other professional serving clients in the trusts and estates space, this episode offers practical insights into building a more collaborative planning process and avoiding the disconnects that can undermine even the best-drafted estate plans. ~~~ Jennifer Galloway - Jenn attended Elizabethtown College, double majored in Criminal Justice and Political Science, always planning to attend law school. She graduated Summa Cum Laude from Duquesne University School of Law, in Pittsburgh, and moved back to York County, where she currently resides and works. After just over a decade in private practice in estate planning, estate and trust administration and Orphans’ Court litigation, Jenn recently joined Counsel Trust Company as their Chief Fiduciary Officer. In this new role, she oversees the trust operations and administrations department back office and team of financial advisors, and was happy to trade the billable hour for a bit more structure. Jay Hagerman - Jay earned a degree in American history at Gettysburg College. During that time, he worked in the White House Office of Correspondence in Washington, D.C. He attended Duquesne University School of Law, focusing his time learning about laws relating to wealth creation and preservation. He founded the elder law firm Abernethy & Hagerman, where he currently works. Jay resides in Hampton Township with his wife and family, which allows him to serve clients throughout Western Pennsylvania. Fred Long - Fred Long is a partner at Long Brightbill, a law firm based in Lebanon, Pennsylvania. His practice is focused on estate planning, trust and estate administration, probate, and real estate transactions. Fred holds an Estate Planning Certificate from Temple University Beasley School of Law and earned a Juris Doctor from Widener University School of Law, graduating with honors. Additionally, he has a Bachelor of Science in Communications with a Minor in Economics from Susquehanna University. In addition to his professional work, Fred is actively involved in community organizations and enjoys spending time with his family and friends, engaging in outdoor activities such as mountain biking, hiking, camping, skiing, and exploring the Pennsylvania wilderness.
Land use and zoning issues touch far more than developers and municipal officials. They affect real estate transactions, business expansion plans, estate and succession planning, investment decisions, and property rights throughout every community. In this episode, we are joined by Slade Miller, partner at Abernethy, Hagerman & Miller, for a discussion on the fundamentals of land use and zoning law. We examine where municipalities derive their authority to regulate land use, the roles of governing bodies and zoning hearing boards, and the processes that govern land development and property use decisions. Slade also explains the distinctions between conditional uses, special exceptions, and variances, discussing when each applies and the practical considerations involved in seeking relief from a municipality or zoning hearing board. Whether you are an attorney, financial advisor, real estate professional, business owner, developer, municipal official, or property owner, this episode provides a practical overview of the legal framework that shapes how land is used, developed, and regulated. ~~~ Jennifer Galloway - Jenn attended Elizabethtown College, double majored in Criminal Justice and Political Science, always planning to attend law school. She graduated Summa Cum Laude from Duquesne University School of Law, in Pittsburgh, and moved back to York County, where she currently resides and works. After just over a decade in private practice in estate planning, estate and trust administration and Orphans’ Court litigation, Jenn recently joined Counsel Trust Company as their Chief Fiduciary Officer. In this new role, she oversees the trust operations and administrations department back office and team of financial advisors, and was happy to trade the billable hour for a bit more structure. Jay Hagerman - Jay earned a degree in American history at Gettysburg College. During that time, he worked in the White House Office of Correspondence in Washington, D.C. He attended Duquesne University School of Law, focusing his time learning about laws relating to wealth creation and preservation. He founded the elder law firm Abernethy & Hagerman, where he currently works. Jay resides in Hampton Township with his wife and family, which allows him to serve clients throughout Western Pennsylvania. Fred Long - Fred Long is a partner at Long Brightbill, a law firm based in Lebanon, Pennsylvania. His practice is focused on estate planning, trust and estate administration, probate, and real estate transactions. Fred holds an Estate Planning Certificate from Temple University Beasley School of Law and earned a Juris Doctor from Widener University School of Law, graduating with honors. Additionally, he has a Bachelor of Science in Communications with a Minor in Economics from Susquehanna University. In addition to his professional work, Fred is actively involved in community organizations and enjoys spending time with his family and friends, engaging in outdoor activities such as mountain biking, hiking, camping, skiing, and exploring the Pennsylvania wilderness.