Show Notes
This is Part 2 of Mary's conversation with Rufi Thorpe, where they finally try to take on the question everyone in this world pretends is already settled: can writing actually be taught? Mary and Rufi get into what they think genuinely is teachable — permission to chase your obsessions, the "rules" of story that work more like physics than commandments, the tools of craft — and what isn't: taste, the courage to sit in the mess of a bad first draft, whatever it is that gives a story its blood and heart. Rufi also makes the case that teaching craft this way, stripped of mystique, is actually a feminist act — that refusing to treat writing as some untouchable, born-with-it talent is its own kind of empowerment, especially for the writers (moms, career-changers, anyone without three years and $100k for an MFA) that traditional programs weren't built for. And they get honest about the fear that comes with being someone's teacher: how do you hand a writer tools without accidentally handing them your taste instead? Rufi Thorpe is the author of the novels The Knockout Queen (a PEN/Faulkner Finalist), Dear Fang, With Love, The Girls from Corona del Mar (longlisted for the Dylan Thomas Prize and the First Novel Prize), and Margo's Got Money Troubles (a finalist for the 2024 Kirkus Prize for Fiction, winner of the Clark Fiction Prize, and now an Apple TV+ miniseries). She grew up in Southern California, got her MFA in Creative Writing from UVA, and taught academic writing before joining The Book Incubator, where she and Mary share the belief that writing is a teachable skill — not a rare gift, but something anyone who loves stories can learn. She lives in California with her husband, two sons, and a highly opinionated bull terrier named Coco. Love the show? Share it with a fellow writer or leave a review! For more resources, visit thebookincubator.com. Want to watch the video episodes? Visit https://www.youtube.com/@maryadkins Let's connect! Come say hi on Instagram: @book.incubator Happy writing! — Mary ======================== RESOURCES: Ready to write your dream book? Apply for The Book Incubator with no obligation to enroll and get my free training HOW TO WRITE AN (ACTUALLY) GOOD BOOK IN 45 MINUTES A DAY: https://www.thebookincubator.com/ A Novel in 52 Prompts - A scene-by-scene blueprint for writing your novel:https://www.thebookincubator.com/novel-in-52-prompts ======================== Hi, I'm Mary! I'm the author of the novels When You Read This (Indie Next Pick and “Best Book of 2019” by Good Housekeeping), Privilege (Today.com “Best Summer Read”), and Palm Beach (New York Post “Best Book of 2021” and “like a sandy beach, equal parts beautiful and uncomfortable” according to the Associated Press). My memoir, You Might Feel A Little Pressure, was released by Third Rail Press in 2025. My books have been published in 13 countries, and I've written for the New York Times, The Atlantic, Slate, and more. I founded an MFA-alternative, The Book Incubator, which has now helped hundreds of writers finish their books over 12 months and continues supporting them through publication (yes, forever!). When I’m not writing, I’m probably building a fort with my 7-year-old son Finn or bathing with an overpriced Lush bath bomb. I live in Dallas, where I spend my free time trying to domesticate a stubborn tabby and shamelessly watching reality TV. ======================== Social: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/book.incubator
More from The First Draft Club
If your draft comes in under the standard word count for your genre, you've probably heard some version of the same advice: don't think about length, just find where the story's thin and fix that. I get why people say it, but I don't love it. So in this episode, instead of the vague "just improve the story" advice, I wanted to hand you something more concrete: an actual process for figuring out where to add length, and how to do it without the whole task feeling impossibly huge. Love the show? Share it with a fellow writer or leave a review! For more resources, visit thebookincubator.com. Want to watch the video episodes? Visit https://www.youtube.com/@maryadkins Let's connect! Come say hi on Instagram: @book.incubator Happy writing! — Mary ======================== RESOURCES: Ready to write your dream book? Apply for The Book Incubator with no obligation to enroll and get my free training HOW TO WRITE AN (ACTUALLY) GOOD BOOK IN 45 MINUTES A DAY: https://www.thebookincubator.com/ A Novel in 52 Prompts - A scene-by-scene blueprint for writing your novel:https://www.thebookincubator.com/novel-in-52-prompts ======================== Hi, I'm Mary! I'm the author of the novels When You Read This (Indie Next Pick and “Best Book of 2019” by Good Housekeeping), Privilege (Today.com “Best Summer Read”), and Palm Beach (New York Post “Best Book of 2021” and “like a sandy beach, equal parts beautiful and uncomfortable” according to the Associated Press). My memoir, You Might Feel A Little Pressure, was released by Third Rail Press in 2025. My books have been published in 13 countries, and I've written for the New York Times, The Atlantic, Slate, and more. I founded an MFA-alternative, The Book Incubator, which has now helped hundreds of writers finish their books over 12 months and continues supporting them through publication (yes, forever!). When I’m not writing, I’m probably building a fort with my 7-year-old son Finn or bathing with an overpriced Lush bath bomb. I live in Dallas, where I spend my free time trying to domesticate a stubborn tabby and shamelessly watching reality TV. ======================== Social: + Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/book.incubator
In her bestselling 2025 memoir The Tell, written with ghostwriter Sam Lansky, Amy Griffin describes having no memory of her childhood sexual abuse until an MDMA therapy session. But in a recent interview with New York Magazine, Griffin reveals she'd not, in fact, fully repressed it. Mary is joined by her Third Rail Press co-founder Alle Mudrick, author of the award-winning memoir Blue Hour Homecoming (https://www.thirdrailpress.org/books/blue-hour-homecoming), to talk about what that choice means for the book, for readers, and for Griffin herself. We discuss: - The difference between minor and major changes in memoir- The role and obligations of a memoir ghostwriter- How this mischaracterization has likely enabled the massive backlash Griffin has received You can find Jessica Bennet's article in The Cut here: https://www.thecut.com/article/amy-griffin-the-tell-defends-herself-against-new-lawsuit.html Love the show? Share it with a fellow writer or leave a review! For more resources, visit thebookincubator.com. Want to watch the video episodes? Visit https://www.youtube.com/@maryadkins Let's connect! Come say hi on Instagram: @book.incubator Happy writing! — Mary ======================== RESOURCES: Ready to write your dream book? Apply for The Book Incubator with no obligation to enroll and get my free training HOW TO WRITE AN (ACTUALLY) GOOD BOOK IN 45 MINUTES A DAY: https://www.thebookincubator.com/ A Novel in 52 Prompts - A scene-by-scene blueprint for writing your novel:https://www.thebookincubator.com/novel-in-52-prompts ======================== Hi, I'm Mary! I'm the author of the novels When You Read This (Indie Next Pick and “Best Book of 2019” by Good Housekeeping), Privilege (Today.com “Best Summer Read”), and Palm Beach (New York Post “Best Book of 2021” and “like a sandy beach, equal parts beautiful and uncomfortable” according to the Associated Press). My memoir, You Might Feel A Little Pressure, was released by Third Rail Press in 2025. My books have been published in 13 countries, and I've written for the New York Times, The Atlantic, Slate, and more. I founded an MFA-alternative, The Book Incubator, which has now helped hundreds of writers finish their books over 12 months and continues supporting them through publication (yes, forever!). When I’m not writing, I’m probably building a fort with my 7-year-old son Finn or bathing with an overpriced Lush bath bomb. I live in Dallas, where I spend my free time trying to domesticate a stubborn tabby and shamelessly watching reality TV. ======================== Social: + Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/book.incubator
This is part two of my conversation with memoirist Greg Marshall. In our conversation, we cover how to write a better paragraph, a technique Greg calls "literary Mad Libs," and how nonfiction writers should use all the same tools that fiction writers do. About Greg: Greg Marshall is the author of Leg: The Story of a Limb and the Boy Who Grew from It (2023) and The Book Incubator's current memoirist-in-residence. He's a National Endowment for the Arts Fellow in Prose and a graduate of the Michener Center for Writers, and his work has appeared in The Best American Essays and been supported by MacDowell and the Corporation of Yaddo. Greg grew up in Salt Lake City, Utah, and now lives in Austin, TX, with his husband, novelist Lucas Schaefer (author of The Slip, winner of the Kirkus Prize), their son, and their dog. Love the show? Share it with a fellow writer or leave a review! For more resources, visit thebookincubator.com. Want to watch the video episodes? Visit https://www.youtube.com/@maryadkins Let's connect! Come say hi on Instagram: @book.incubator Happy writing! — Mary ======================== RESOURCES: + Ready to write your dream book? Apply for The Book Incubator with no obligation to enroll and get my free training HOW TO WRITE AN (ACTUALLY) GOOD BOOK IN 45 MINUTES A DAY: https://www.thebookincubator.com/ + A Novel in 52 Prompts - A scene-by-scene blueprint for writing your novel:https://www.thebookincubator.com/novel-in-52-prompts ======================== Hi, I'm Mary! I'm the author of the novels When You Read This (Indie Next Pick and “Best Book of 2019” by Good Housekeeping), Privilege (Today.com “Best Summer Read”), and Palm Beach (New York Post “Best Book of 2021” and “like a sandy beach, equal parts beautiful and uncomfortable” according to the Associated Press). My memoir, You Might Feel A Little Pressure, was released by Third Rail Press in 2025. My books have been published in 13 countries, and I've written for the New York Times, The Atlantic, Slate, and more. I founded an MFA-alternative, The Book Incubator, which has now helped hundreds of writers finish their books over 12 months and continues supporting them through publication (yes, forever!). When I’m not writing, I’m probably building a fort with my 7-year-old son Finn or bathing with an overpriced Lush bath bomb. I live in Dallas, where I spend my free time trying to domesticate a stubborn tabby and shamelessly watching reality TV. ======================== Social: + Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/book.incubator
This week I'm talking with my dear friend Greg Marshall, our memoir instructor inside the Book Incubator. Greg talks about how he wrote his own memoir, Leg, and how he didn't abandon the material in early drafts when it wasn't working. He just kept circling the same stories and recombining them until they found their shape. We also get into one of my favorite ideas from this conversation: "narrative perch," the question of exactly who is telling the story you're reading. We also talk about how nailing that down lets a memoirist time-travel through their own life without losing the reader. Make sure to come back next week for part two of this conversation, where Greg breaks down how to write a better paragraph. About Greg: Greg Marshall is the author of Leg: The Story of a Limb and the Boy Who Grew from It (2023) and The Book Incubator's current memoirist-in-residence. He's a National Endowment for the Arts Fellow in Prose and a graduate of the Michener Center for Writers, and his work has appeared in The Best American Essays and been supported by MacDowell and the Corporation of Yaddo. Greg grew up in Salt Lake City, Utah, and now lives in Austin, TX, with his husband, novelist Lucas Schaefer (author of The Slip, winner of the Kirkus Prize), their son, and their dog. Love the show? Share it with a fellow writer or leave a review! For more resources, visit thebookincubator.com. Want to watch the video episodes? Visit https://www.youtube.com/@maryadkins Let's connect! Come say hi on Instagram: @book.incubator Happy writing! — Mary ======================== RESOURCES: Ready to write your dream book? Apply for The Book Incubator with no obligation to enroll and get my free training HOW TO WRITE AN (ACTUALLY) GOOD BOOK IN 45 MINUTES A DAY: https://www.thebookincubator.com/ A Novel in 52 Prompts - A scene-by-scene blueprint for writing your novel:https://www.thebookincubator.com/novel-in-52-prompts ======================== Hi, I'm Mary! I'm the author of the novels When You Read This (Indie Next Pick and “Best Book of 2019” by Good Housekeeping), Privilege (Today.com “Best Summer Read”), and Palm Beach (New York Post “Best Book of 2021” and “like a sandy beach, equal parts beautiful and uncomfortable” according to the Associated Press). My memoir, You Might Feel A Little Pressure, was released by Third Rail Press in 2025. My books have been published in 13 countries, and I've written for the New York Times, The Atlantic, Slate, and more. I founded an MFA-alternative, The Book Incubator, which has now helped hundreds of writers finish their books over 12 months and continues supporting them through publication (yes, forever!). When I’m not writing, I’m probably building a fort with my 7-year-old son Finn or bathing with an overpriced Lush bath bomb. I live in Dallas, where I spend my free time trying to domesticate a stubborn tabby and shamelessly watching reality TV. ======================== Social: + Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/book.incubator
Register for my free workshop, How Much Money Can You Make On Your Book?, at workshop.thebookincubator.com. Live on Sep 10th or register to get the replay! Publishing is a black box for aspiring authors. You don't know what you don't know about the industry. But Publishers Marketplace is an aspiring author's best untapped resource — the most useful resource you don't know you're missing until you have it. In this episode, I'm showing you what it is, how to use it, and why this website where publishing professionals report their book deals can be your most useful tool when preparing to get a literary agent and a book deal. Love the show? Share it with a fellow writer or leave a review! For more resources, visit thebookincubator.com. Want to watch the video episodes? Visit https://www.youtube.com/@maryadkins Let's connect! Come say hi on Instagram: @book.incubator Happy writing! — Mary ======================== RESOURCES: + Ready to write your dream book? Apply for The Book Incubator with no obligation to enroll and get my free training HOW TO WRITE AN (ACTUALLY) GOOD BOOK IN 45 MINUTES A DAY: https://www.thebookincubator.com/ + A Novel in 52 Prompts - A scene-by-scene blueprint for writing your novel:https://www.thebookincubator.com/novel-in-52-prompts ======================== Hi, I'm Mary! I'm the author of the novels When You Read This (Indie Next Pick and “Best Book of 2019” by Good Housekeeping), Privilege (Today.com “Best Summer Read”), and Palm Beach (New York Post “Best Book of 2021” and “like a sandy beach, equal parts beautiful and uncomfortable” according to the Associated Press). My memoir, You Might Feel A Little Pressure, was released by Third Rail Press in 2025. My books have been published in 13 countries, and I've written for the New York Times, The Atlantic, Slate, and more. I founded an MFA-alternative, The Book Incubator, which has now helped hundreds of writers finish their books over 12 months and continues supporting them through publication (yes, forever!). When I’m not writing, I’m probably building a fort with my 7-year-old son Finn or bathing with an overpriced Lush bath bomb. I live in Dallas, where I spend my free time trying to domesticate a stubborn tabby and shamelessly watching reality TV. ======================== Social: + Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/book.incubator