Show Notes
At 500 knots each, two F-16s point straight at each other with less than a second to react, one of them upside down. That's the moment Michelle "Mace" Curran walks Dwayne through in Part 2 of this conversation, and it's just the entry point into a masterclass on what she calls "the space between": the pause between feeling fear and deciding what to do with it. In this episode: The near head-on collision during a Thunderbirds training pass, closing at roughly 1,000 mph, missing by what she believes was inches and the split-second decision-making that got both pilots through it Why Michelle earned her call sign "Mace" (Mach at Circle Entry) by accidentally breaking the sound barrier on her second flight in Japan, and how she turned it into a badge of honor The physical disruptor, wiggling her toes, that a flight instructor taught her to break out of over-control and hypervigilance, and the neuroscience behind why it works Why the Thunderbirds' hiring process (40 applicants, 3 spots, a 12-officer interview panel) weighs personality, composure, and preparation over raw technical skill Her "bubble" routine in her third year with the Thunderbirds, strict self-care boundaries that helped her show up better in a public-facing role Why she sees fear as a signal, not a stop sign, and how that reframe applies as much to a hard business call as it does to flying a fighter jet
Time Stamps: 00:00 Competence Over Noise 00:33 Welcome Michelle “Mace” Curran 01:32 Imposter Syndrome Pivot 02:53 Bravery And Fear Reframed 07:20 The Space Between 12:03 Near Miss Decision Making 14:54 Physical Disruptors Tool 21:56 Fear Signals In The Body 23:29 High Performance Discipline 29:01 Hiring For Team Traits 33:39 Thunderbirds Selection Process 36:20 Prep Under Pressure 37:13 Working Interview Signals 38:32 Downtime Reveals Drive 39:31 Bias and Perception Checks 41:15 Women in Fighter Aviation 47:13 Media Noise and Unity 50:58 Leading for Bigger Impact 54:56 Self Care for Performance 59:06 Where to Find Michelle 01:00:09 Call Sign and Failure Lessons 01:04:19 Final Thanks Michelle "Mace" Curran is a former U.S. Air Force fighter pilot who flew as a Thunderbirds lead solo and trained the incoming opposing solo pilot during her tenure on the team. Over a 13-year military career she flew combat missions and instrument approaches in extreme conditions, including a station in Misawa, Japan. She is now a keynote speaker and author of the children's book Upside Down Dreams and its sequel centered on fighter pilot call signs, and has written a book exploring fear and decision-making under pressure. She also runs corporate workshops and speaks widely on high performance, fear, and leadership. Connect with Michelle Website: https://macecurran.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mace_curran LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/macecurran/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/macecurran/ Connect with Dwayne Kerrigan Facebook Instagram Linked In Website Disclaimer: The views, information, or opinions expressed by guests during The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Dwayne Kerrigan and his affiliates. Dwayne Kerrigan or The Dwayne Kerrigan Podcast is not responsible for and does not verify the accuracy of any of the information contained in the podcast series. The primary purpose of this podcast is to educate and inform. Listeners are advised to consult with a qualified professional or specialist before making any decisions based on the content of this podcast.
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