Ep. 230 - John Dominic Crossan & Michael Okinczyc-Cruz "Jesus and Justice" pt. 2

What happens when following your conscience means breaking the law? And what does it look like when faith moves beyond belief and becomes an act of resistance? In this episode of The Deconstructionists, we're joined by historian and author Dr. Lloyd Barba to explore the remarkable history of the Sanctuary Movement and his book, Sanctuary in America: How Activists Defied the Government and Defended Immigrants—And Why It Still Matters. During the 1980s, as refugees fled violence, persecution, and civil wars in Central America, churches and faith communities across the United States began opening their doors to people seeking safety. In defiance of federal immigration policies, religious leaders and everyday Americans risked arrest, prosecution, and their own security to offer sanctuary to vulnerable families. But the Sanctuary Movement was about much more than immigration. It raised profound questions about the relationship between religion and government, the meaning of justice, and whether following the teachings of Jesus sometimes requires challenging the very institutions that claim to represent Christian values. In Part 1 of our conversation, we explore the historical roots of sanctuary, the political and religious forces that shaped the movement, and the extraordinary individuals who believed their moral obligations transcended national borders. Along the way, we wrestle with questions that remain just as relevant today: What does it mean to truly love our neighbors? Where should people of faith draw the line between obedience and resistance? And what can history teach us about the responsibilities we have toward those seeking refuge? It's a fascinating conversation about faith, courage, compassion, and the power of ordinary people to challenge extraordinary injustice. About Our Guest Dr. Lloyd Barba is a historian whose research explores American religion, immigration, and the relationship between faith and social movements. His book, Sanctuary in America: How Activists Defied the Government and Defended Immigrants—And Why It Still Matters, examines the history and enduring significance of the Sanctuary Movement. Find the book: Sanctuary in America — Book Search Coming Soon: This Is Who We Become We're also incredibly excited to share more about our upcoming podcast, This Is Who We Become! Every life has a before. Every life has an after. Our new show explores the extraordinary moments that change people's lives forever, featuring deeply personal conversations about survival, transformation, resilience, loss, discovery, and what it means to begin again. We've already started announcing our first guests, including NASA scientist Dr. Cristina Thomas, survivor and advocate Angela Harger Thompson, and acclaimed author Luis J. Rodriguez—with many more remarkable guests to come! Help us launch this new chapter! Visit www.thisiswhowebecome.com to subscribe to our free mailing list for guest announcements, exclusive updates, and launch news. And please share the website with friends and family who might enjoy these conversations. Your support means everything as we prepare to bring this new project to life! Stay Connected with The Deconstructionists Thank you for listening and for being part of this community. If you enjoyed this conversation, please consider sharing the episode, subscribing to the podcast, and leaving us a rating or review. Stay tuned for Part 2, where we continue our conversation with Dr. Barba and explore the lasting legacy of the Sanctuary Movement and its relevance to the world we're living in today. Until next time, keep asking questions.

Angela Harger Thompson — “Worst T*ts Ever,” Part 2 We return for the concluding half of our conversation with Angela Harger Thompson, actor, filmmaker, and author of Worst Tits Ever. Across this two-part interview, Angela’s story invites us to consider how trauma and controlling relationships can affect our understanding of ourselves—and what it can mean to reclaim our own narrative. Her memoir brings honesty and dark humor to experiences often surrounded by shame and silence. Join us for the conclusion of a conversation about survival, the power of storytelling, and the person whose life extends beyond what happened to her. If you haven’t heard Part 1, we recommend starting there. Content note: This two-part conversation includes discussions of sexual assault, drugging, abusive relationships, coercive control, and trauma. Please take care of yourself while listening. Learn more: Visit Angela Harger Productions to learn about Angela’s work and memoir, Worst Tits Ever. Join the mailing list for This Is Who We Become for guest announcements and launch updates. Every life has a before. Every life has an after.

Angela Harger Thompson — “Worst T*ts Ever,” Part 1 Actor, filmmaker, and author Angela Harger Thompson joins The Deconstructionists for the first half of a candid conversation about her memoir, Worst Tits Ever, and the experiences that changed her life. Angela shares her story of surviving sexual assault, navigating an abusive relationship, and finding herself on a sailing journey that became an increasingly unsafe situation. We explore the difficulty of recognizing abuse from inside a relationship, the shame and self-doubt that can follow trauma, and what it means to tell your story in your own words. With honesty and dark humor, Angela brings us into a conversation about survival, identity, and reclaiming a voice that others tried to silence. Content note: This episode includes discussions of sexual assault, drugging, abusive relationships, coercive control, and trauma. Please take care of yourself while listening. Learn more: Visit Angela Harger Productions to learn about Angela’s work and memoir, Worst Tits Ever. Join the mailing list for This Is Who We Become, the next chapter after The Deconstructionists. Every life has a before. Every life has an after.

In Part Two of our conversation with Dr. Janet Kellogg, we explore the growing loss of trust in medicine and science—and what happens when that distrust opens the door to misinformation. From unsupported claims connecting Tylenol to autism to the broader consequences of rejecting medical expertise, we examine why these ideas gain traction, how fear can travel faster than evidence, and why simply telling people they’re wrong rarely rebuilds trust. We also discuss the need to hold institutions accountable for genuine failures without abandoning science altogether—and what honesty, humility, and transparency might contribute to restoring public confidence. New Podcast Coming Soon! Our new podcast, This Is Who We Become, explores the moments that divide a life into “before” and “after”—and the people we become because of them. Visit https://thisiswhowebecome.com and join the mailing list for upcoming guest announcements, launch updates, and more. Connect with The Deconstructionists: Website: https://thedeconstructionists.com

What if accepting evolution didn’t require abandoning faith? Dr. Janet Kellogg Ray returns to The Deconstructionists to talk about her new book, Fish with Feet: Human Evolution and the Image of God. Janet is a science educator, author, and Jesus follower who was herself raised within creationism. In her latest book, she tackles one of the most persistent points of tension between modern science and certain expressions of Christianity: human evolution. In Part One of our conversation, we dig into the remarkable story of how life developed on Earth and eventually produced us—from our ancient aquatic ancestors to primates, early humans, and Homo sapiens. Along the way, Janet helps unpack some of the evidence for evolution found in fossils, anatomy, genetics, and even the strange imperfections built into our own bodies. We also explore why human evolution remains particularly difficult for many Christians to accept, why familiar objections like “If humans evolved from monkeys, why are there still monkeys?” misunderstand how evolution actually works, and what happens when the scientific evidence appears to conflict with the way we were taught to read Scripture. And underneath it all is a much bigger question: If human beings are part of the evolutionary story of life on Earth, what does it actually mean to say that we are made in the image of God? That’s where things get really interesting. This is Part One of our conversation with Dr. Janet Kellogg Ray. Fish with Feet: Human Evolution and the Image of God is available from Eerdmans Publishing and wherever books are sold.