Learning How to See with Brian McLaren

Learning How to Hold Space for Others with Cindy Lee

Learning How to See with Brian McLaren

Show Notes

How can we de-Westernize spirituality and honor our full humanity within systems that often diminish it?

On this episode of Learning How to See, Dr. Cindy Lee, a spiritual director and author, joins hosts Brian McLaren and Carmen Acevedo Butcher for a conversation on de-Westernizing spirituality and holding space for the lived experience of others. Cindy shares how her work with BIPOC communities revealed the limits of Westernized spiritual formation, and how confronting the “Western missionary gaze” can open us to seeing our cultures — and ourselves — with dignity rather than judgment.

Resources:

Read Howard Thurman's "The Sound of the Genuine" here.

Find the transcript of this episode⁠ ⁠here.⁠⁠

Connect with us:

Have a question you’d like Brian or Carmen to answer about this season?

Send us a voicemail: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠cac.org/voicemail⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Email us: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

More from Learning How to See with Brian McLaren

Oct 22, 2026

Today's episode features an audio essay from Edith Woodley on the Biblical story of Joseph, which she first knew as a child in its tidy, happily-ever-after form. Brian McLaren and Randy Woodley respond, tracing how favoritism, from Jacob’s family to colonial rule in Rwanda and Burundi, can create cycles of intergenerational trauma.

Oct 15, 2026

In today's episode, we look at the Genesis 12 story of Abram, in contrast to that of Joshua. Hosts Brian McLaren, Randy Woodley, and Edith Woodley explore how Abram, as an immigrant, respects the customs and values of those around him, versus Joshua's conquering narrative. The three reflect on how the Bible can be used to justify harm, or harmony, focusing on the way in which Westerners coming to the United States wielded Joshua's approach as a weapon against Native Peoples.

Oct 8, 2026

In today's episode, we look at the Genesis 12 story of Abram’s call. Hosts Brian McLaren, Randy Woodley, and Edith Woodley explore what it means to be “blessed to be a blessing,” how generosity and hospitality can shape our identities, and how a strong sense of identity can become a gift to others rather than a reason for exclusion or domination.

Oct 1, 2026

In today's episode, we explore the story of the Tower of Babel and turn the usual reading of it upside down. Diverse languages, in this telling, are not the curse — the tower is.

Sep 24, 2026

Thank you for joining us for today's episode of Learning How to See, hosted by Brian McLaren, with guest hosts Rev. Dr. Randy Woodley and Edith Woodley.

See all episodes →