Discovering Leo Sayer, Writing Hits and Why Persistence Beats Talent | David Courtney (songwriter/producer)

How do you become CEO of Matchroom Boxing at just 26? And what does it actually take to get there? Frank Smith started working with Eddie Hearn at 14, having relentlessly pursued him for an opportunity. By 26, he was running one of the biggest boxing promotion businesses in the world. But what drove him to succeed so young? And was it all worth it? We talk about money, ambition, the extraordinary dedication required to reach the top, and the experiences he sacrificed along the way. Frank also speaks candidly about Conor Benn, Chris Eubank Jr, loyalty, ego, why he believes emotion can be detrimental in business, and the criticism that genuinely got under his skin. And perhaps most interestingly, why the things he wants from life now are very different from those he wanted at 14. An honest, funny and revealing conversation about getting to the top, staying there, and knowing what you actually want from life.

What happens when you stop creating for the algorithm and start creating as yourself? Musician and content creator Oli Howe has attracted millions of views and a huge online audience by doing almost everything creators are told not to do: three-minute videos, no conventional viral hooks, simple editing, a deadpan stare, plus music he genuinely wants to make. His reharmonisations of well-known songs have attracted millions of views and attention from artists including Justin Timberlake, Lenny Kravitz, Chaka Khan, David Foster and TLC’s Chilli. But behind Oli’s success is a much deeper story. In this conversation, Oli talks openly about losing his father, the suicide of his sister, depression, PTSD and complex PTSD, severe panic attacks, physical illness and the period in which he lost his ability to perform and create and, with it, much of his sense of identity. We talk about creativity as a way of processing emotion, why creative block doesn’t mean you’ve stopped being creative, perfectionism, knowing when your work is “good enough”, the pressure of numbers and likes, and why authenticity may be far more powerful than trying to manufacture virality. Oli also explains the surprisingly deliberate structure behind his videos — the recurring jokes, musical payoffs and tiny familiar moments that keep millions of people watching. A conversation about creativity, mental health, grief, resilience, perfectionism, social media — and finding your own way of doing things. P.S. Get ready to cry!! Find Oli on Instagram: @oli_howe_keys WHOLE: The Podcast explores what helps us live, create and work in closer alignment with what genuinely matters to us. Head to wholeframework.com to learn how you can do the same.

You may have heard Abi Flynn's voice millions of times without ever knowing her name. Her unmistakable vocals have featured on huge dance records including Navos’ platinum-selling Believe Me and D.O.D’s So Much In Love, with her toplines now exceeding one billion streams worldwide. Abi is the singer and songwriter behind vocals that went on to appear on multiple platinum-selling dance records. Extraordinary enough, but those vocals were originally recorded during one of the darkest periods of her life, while she was undergoing treatment for Hodgkin's lymphoma. At one point, Abi says she was given just three weeks to live. She kept creating.Years later, she found herself hearing her voice on the radio while remaining uncredited and struggling to establish herself in the industry in her own right. At one stage, while raising her son as a single mother, she lost her home while another record featuring her voice went gold.Today, Abi is finally becoming known as the woman behind the voice. She is finally stepping into the spotlight in her own right, working with artists including Nathan Dawe, Joel Corry and Tinie Tempah. In this conversation, we explore what happened next: the decision to reclaim her voice, tell her story and create opportunities for herself rather than waiting for permission.Abi and I also talk about cancer, creativity, motherhood, neurodivergence, letting go, identity, self-belief, finding the right people, and the uncomfortable reality of pursuing a life built around something that matters deeply to you. This is a conversation about much more than surviving. It's about what happens when the thing that nearly disappeared from your life becomes the thing you finally decide to claim. If you enjoyed this conversation, please like, subscribe and follow WHOLE for more conversations about what it really takes to build a life around what matters to you — the choices we make, what we sometimes have to let go of, and the courage it takes to keep moving towards a meaningful life.

Takeaways: Discomfort is an inevitable aspect of pursuing meaningful endeavors that align with one's values. Individuals often find themselves confronted with challenges that test their self-concept and self-image. The willingness to embrace discomfort is crucial for personal growth and achievement. Failure is a necessary component of success, as it enables valuable lessons to be learned. Understanding the distinction between harmful and growth-oriented discomfort is paramount for personal development. One's journey may require letting go of old identities to embrace new opportunities for growth.

What if the goal isn't to eliminate anxiety? Clinical psychologist Dr David Juncos explains why trying to control anxiety often keeps people stuck—and why Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) takes a completely different approach. In this episode we explore why psychological flexibility matters, how values create lasting motivation, why procrastination and perfectionism are closely linked, and how musicians, performers and anyone facing pressure can learn to perform well even when anxiety is present. Dr David Juncos is a clinical psychologist, researcher, ACT specialist and author of ACT for Musicians. His work has helped musicians, performers and coaches around the world develop psychological flexibility and overcome performance anxiety. In this episode • Why reducing anxiety isn't the primary goal of ACT • The six processes of psychological flexibility • Why perfectionism fuels procrastination • The difference between values, goals and duties • How your self-story may be holding you back • Why discomfort doesn't mean you're on the wrong path • Practical ACT techniques you can use immediately If you enjoy conversations about psychology, wellbeing, creativity and meaningful performance, subscribe for more interviews with leading researchers, performers and thinkers.