176. Revisiting 10,000 Maniacs Founding Member Steven Gustafson

In this episode, we welcome Adam Franks from Yorkshire, England, the father behind Maisy & Dadda. Adam shares how raising his four-year-old daughter Maisy has transformed his understanding of Down syndrome, moving from the fear and uncertainty of her diagnosis to celebrating the life they're building together. We are excited for our listeners, who are also fans of Maisy & Dadda, to learn move about this duo and the change they are making by spreading their story. It's an honest conversation about changing perceptions, challenging expectations and recognizing that our children don't need to prove they belong. They already do. Episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLi4R9dL4avnOh5T8VEejTmDL15gKp2i_u Episode Transcript: https://ifweknewthen701833686.wpcomstaging.com/2026/10/10/209-maisy-daddy-with-adam-franks/2/ Please follow us on X @ifweknewthenPOD you can drop us a line on our Facebook page @ifweknewthenPOD or visit our website https://www.IfWeKnewThen.com to send us an email with questions and comments. You can join our mailing list there and get alerts of future podcast episodes. Thank you again and we look forward to you joining us on the next episode of IF WE KNEW THEN.

In this powerful episode we sit down with longtime disability advocate Stephanie Hall Meredith for an honest conversation about the changes happening around special education, disability rights and the systems that protect inclusion and equal education. Stephanie brings decades of advocacy knowledge to a conversation that can feel overwhelming, but ultimately leaves us with something we need right now: a reason to stay informed, stay engaged and keep going. National Down Syndrome Congress - The Policy Pulse News Update: https://ndsccenter.org/policy/action-center/the-policy-pulse.html State Councils on Developmental Disabilities: https://acl.gov/programs/aging-and-disability-networks/state-councils-developmental-disabilities The ARC: https://thearc.org/policy-advocacy/ NDSS: https://ndss.org/policy Being Heumann: An Unrepentant Memoir of a Disability Rights Activist: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0807002801?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback Episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLi4R9dL4avnOh5T8VEejTmDL15gKp2i_u Episode Transcript: https://ifweknewthen701833686.wpcomstaging.com/2026/08/20/208-changes-to-special-education-and-how-we-continue-to-advocate/2/ Please follow us on X @ifweknewthenPOD you can drop us a line on our Facebook page @ifweknewthenPOD or visit our website https://www.IfWeKnewThen.com to send us an email with questions and comments. You can join our mailing list there and get alerts of future podcast episodes. Thank you again and we look forward to you joining us on the next episode of IF WE KNEW THEN. ——— SUMMARY: The conversation begins with the changes and uncertainty surrounding the Office of Special Education Programs and proposals to move special education oversight from the Department of Education to Health and Human Services. Stephanie explains why advocates are concerned about losing specialized expertise, reducing federal oversight, and shifting more responsibility onto individual states and families. The discussion also looks at the potential consequences of block grants and what could happen when families lose a clear federal pathway for addressing problems with special education services.Stephen and Lori bring the conversation directly into their own lives when they talk about Liam's return to school. After seeing what they felt was a lackadaisical attitude toward his IEP, Lori made it clear that this year would be different. Collaboration with a school team remains important, but so does making sure that rights are understood, supports are provided, and problems aren't simply allowed to slide. Stephanie explains why understanding disability history is so important, particularly at a moment when advocates are worried about losing progress. The episode explores IDEA, Section 504, the Olmstead decision, the history of institutionalization, and the long fight for inclusion and community-based living. Stephanie shares the story of her family member, who was institutionalized as a child in 1960 and remained there until 2003, illustrating just how recently these systems were part of everyday life for many people with disabilities. The conversation also becomes a practical discussion about advocacy. Stephanie encourages families to follow trusted organizations such as the National Down Syndrome Congress, the National Down Syndrome Society, and The Arc, respond to advocacy alerts, build relationships with state and federal legislators, pay attention to state-level changes, and learn about disability rights through advocacy training and trusted resources. But advocacy isn't only about contacting lawmakers. The episode explores the power of telling our own stories. Stephanie explains how parents can connect personal experience, facts, and emotion to help others understand why special education services, support staff, job coaches, community services, and inclusion aren't extras. They are often the infrastructure that makes meaningful participation possible. S

Back to school can bring excitement, but for but for caregivers of students with Down syndrome, it often brings anxiety. Before the first day, many parents are already thinking about IEP meetings, accommodations that weren’t followed and how to ensure their child is supported and included. Back-to-school season isn’t just about new routines, it’s about advocacy, communication and making sure access to education is in place from day one. In this episode, we talk about the back-to-school anxiety no one talks about: the pressure of IEPs, challenges with the school and the reality our families face each school year. If you’re preparing for a new school year with an IEP, this conversation will help you feel seen, prepared and less alone. Episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLi4R9dL4avnOh5T8VEejTmDL15gKp2i_u Episode Transcript: https://ifweknewthen701833686.wpcomstaging.com/2026/08/08/207-the-back-to-school-anxiety-no-one-talks-about-in-special-education/2/ Please follow us on X @ifweknewthenPOD you can drop us a line on our Facebook page @ifweknewthenPOD or visit our website https://www.IfWeKnewThen.com to send us an email with questions and comments. You can join our mailing list there and get alerts of future podcast episodes. Thank you again and we look forward to you joining us on the next episode of IF WE KNEW THEN. ------- SUMMARY: In this episode of If We Knew Then, Stephen and Lori Saux open up about the back-to-school season and the anxiety that so often comes with it for families navigating Down syndrome and special education. While many families are preparing backpacks and meeting new teachers with excitement, parents of children with disabilities are often carrying something much heavier: the responsibility of ensuring their child’s needs will be understood, respected, and consistently met. Stephen and Lori reflect on how back-to-school has evolved for their family over the years, shaped by both positive experiences and ongoing challenges within the education system. They share the emotional and logistical realities of preparing for a new school year when an IEP (Individualized Education Program) is involved by reviewing goals, anticipating potential gaps in support and bracing for the need to advocate early and often. The conversation highlights a truth many families know well: access to education for children with disabilities is not automatic. It requires vigilance, communication and, at times, confrontation. From accommodations not being followed to inclusion efforts falling short, the unpredictability of how a school year will unfold can create a persistent sense of unease. That anxiety doesn’t come from a lack of hope and it comes from experience. At the same time, this episode is not without encouragement. Stephen and Lori emphasize the importance of building collaborative relationships with educators, staying grounded in what their child needs to succeed and remembering that advocacy is not adversarial, it’s essential. They also acknowledge the growth that comes with time: learning how to prepare, when to push and how to celebrate progress, even when it feels hard won. This conversation offers validation for parents and caregivers who may feel isolated in these experiences. It names the often unspoken emotions that surface during back-to-school season and reminds listeners that they are not alone in navigating them. For those new to the journey, it provides insight into what to expect; for seasoned advocates, it reinforces the shared reality of doing this work year after year. Ultimately, this episode is about more than anxiety. It’s about resilience and the unwavering commitment to ensuring every child is seen, supported and included.

In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Mona Patel Gera from Children’s Hospital Los Angeles and talk through the “laundry list” that comes with a Down syndrome diagnosis. We keep it practical, focusing on what families actually need to ask and what requires attention early on, drawing from the same appointments and evaluations we’ve navigated with Liam. Dr. Gera also shares her connection to Liam through her son, Sejal, who was in his first grade class. She tells us about Sejal coming home talking about “adaptive PE,” describing how they worked on balance together and later insisting on “no dis-inclusion” after Lori visited the class. Those are moments we don’t always get to see, since Liam doesn’t come home and tell us his day.

In this episode we speak with Micah Kessel, founder of Playground of Empathy and creator of Empathable, a project designed to help people experience perspectives different from their own. The conversation focuses on what inclusion actually means beyond the word itself, and why many current approaches fail to create real belonging. Micah explains how most inclusion efforts rely on rules or negative messaging, rather than lived experience and emotional connection. He shares his work in designing immersive experiences that allow participants to “walk in someone else’s shoes,” not to fully understand another person’s life, but to recognize that their experiences are just as real and valid. We connect this idea to our own advocacy, especially in education, where inclusion is often discussed but not consistently practiced. We talk about how language, perspective and emotional awareness shape the way people show up for one another, and how empathy can shift interactions, even in difficult situations like fighting for a child’s rights. This episode explores the role of emotional education, the limits of traditional definitions of empathy and the importance of creating environments where differences are not just accommodated, but recognized as valid. Empathable: https://empathable.com Playground of Empathy: https://empathable.com/playground/ Episodes on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLi4R9dL4avnOh5T8VEejTmDL15gKp2i_u Episode Transcript: https://ifweknewthen701833686.wpcomstaging.com/2026/07/15/205-if-inclusion-is-the-goal-why-are-so-many-still-left-out/2/ Please follow us on X @ifweknewthenPOD you can drop us a line on our Facebook page @ifweknewthenPOD or visit our website https://www.IfWeKnewThen.com to send us an email with questions and comments. You can join our mailing list there and get alerts of future podcast episodes. Thank you again and we look forward to you joining us on the next episode of IF WE KNEW THEN. -------- Summary In this episode of If We Knew Then, Stephen and Lori Saux sit down with Micah Kessel, founder of Playground of Empathy and creator of Empathable, to examine what inclusion actually looks like in practice—and why so many current efforts fall short. What begins as a conversation about “inclusive playgrounds” quickly shifts into a deeper discussion about the difference between accessibility, inclusion, and true belonging. Micah explains that many inclusion programs rely on rules, compliance, or negative messaging—telling people what not to do—rather than creating meaningful understanding. He shares that most approaches treat inclusion as a concept to be learned, instead of an experience to be felt. His work focuses on immersive, emotion-centered design that allows people to encounter perspectives different from their own. The goal is not to fully understand someone else’s experience, which he notes is impossible, but to recognize that their experience is just as valid as your own. Stephen and Lori connect this to their own journey advocating for their son Liam, especially within the education system. They reflect on how often the word “inclusion” is used without a shared understanding of what it requires in practice. They discuss the gap between language and action, and how easily systems can appear supportive while still excluding students in meaningful ways. The conversation also explores the role of language in shaping inclusion. Micah highlights the difference between directive language and invitational language—phrases that create space, curiosity, and connection. This shift, he argues, is key to fostering a sense of belonging. Lori emphasizes how powerful words have been in their advocacy, particularly in IEP meetings and school settings, where language can either open doors or quietly limit opportunity. A central idea in the episode is redefining empathy. Rather than viewing empathy as the ability to understand or share someone else’s feelings, Micah reframes it as the a