Kim Parer

Santa Sabina's first Rhodes Scholar didn't win the Rhodes on her first attempt. Dr Ashleigh Barnes missed the New South Wales place, steadied herself and went again in the national round. Now a constitutional law academic at UNSW, Ashleigh talks with Cynthia about imposter syndrome at Oxford, the school captaincy she missed, and why dignity sits at the heart of her legal work. She opens up about working with two babies under two. You'll hear why every application takes courage, and why having it all doesn't mean all at once. Key Takeaways: Believing everything is possible is worth protecting: Ashleigh left school sure nothing held women back, and while she later learnt otherwise, she's glad she started adulthood with that conviction. The trajectory is only visible from the outside: what looks like a straight line was really other people tapping her on the shoulder, missteps, and working it out as she went. Imposter syndrome does not disappear with achievement: at Oxford she felt she'd crept in and had to do double, and found most people around her were thinking the same. Dignity sits behind the dry words of the law: her research asks judges and practitioners to look past the text of the Constitution to what its structures are trying to protect. Every application is an act of courage: putting yourself forward means genuinely believing you could get it, which is exactly why missing out can be crushing. Missing out can make you a better candidate: she missed both the school captaincy and the single NSW Rhodes place, then steadied herself and won in the national round. You can have it all, just not all at once: motherhood has changed her completely, and she wants to show it openly rather than hide it as earlier women leaders often did. Notable Quotes: "It looks like a trajectory, but it was actually more of an up and down, a left and right, working it out as I went." — Ashleigh Barnes "If you don't believe in yourself, the assessors will see right through you." — Ashleigh Barnes "It was very much a case of work as if you didn't have any children." — Cynthia Myssy "I think we can have it all but not all at once." — Ashleigh Barnes "Should I try for that? Will I fit in? Will I be okay in this scenario? You show up anyway." — Ashleigh Barnes "Sometimes that period of endurance actually makes you a better candidate." — Ashleigh Barnes "I would tell her just keep going. Just keep going because all these beautiful things are ahead." — Ashleigh Barnes See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Monica Serci has spent her career in family law, sitting with people at the worst moments of their lives. She's a special counsel at Walter and Elliot Family Lawyers, was named a Doyle's Guide Rising Star, and she gives her own time to advocacy work she believes in. In this conversation with Cynthia Myssy, Monica talks about the early warning signs of coercion and control, why the census undercounts what women actually do, and what happens when you treat a non negotiable as negotiable.

Caroline Smith started out teaching PE. She's now General Manager of Apprenticeship Careers Australia, and the road between those two things ran straight through her husband's terminal diagnosis. Caroline retrained in accounting while caring for Nigel, raising Emily, and later watching her mum slip into dementia. She'll tell you she hasn't done anything special. Cynthia Myssy disagrees. They talk career change under pressure, why resilience isn't a personality trait some women have and others lack, and why the gender gap in trades runs in both directions. Key Takeaways: Career Change You Did Not Choose: When Nigel was told he could no longer work, Caroline's retraining stopped being a someday idea and became a decision. She chose accounting deliberately, for employability across any industry rather than for any love of numbers. Resilience Is Not a Personality Trait: Caroline's position is that she did nothing exceptional, that anyone facing the same circumstances would have done the same, and that capability only reveals itself once it is tested. What a School Gives You Decades Later: She credits the strength that carried her to her teachers at Santa Sabina and to a Year 12 class in 1994, absorbed rather than taught, years before she knew she would need it. Admitting You Cannot Do It Alone: Looking herself in the eye and accepting she could not manage on her own is what made everything afterwards possible, including keeping Nigel at home rather than in a nursing home. Recovery Takes Longer Than the Crisis: After years of running on adrenaline, Caroline had to learn how to stop being on alert, and says she has only really managed it in the last three or four years. The Gender Gap in Trades Runs Both Ways: Women make up as few as 4 per cent of some construction and automotive roles, men under 10 per cent in aged care and health, and Caroline argues that any field dominated by one gender will create skills shortages in that field. Notable Quotes: "We're all capable of it, but it just depends on whether we're ever confronted by something like that." — Caroline Smith "You've got to look yourself in the eye and say, can I manage this on my own? And the answer is no." — Caroline Smith "Whether they did it directly or whether you sort of picked up some of that resilience and some of that determination through osmosis, it certainly stuck." — Caroline Smith "It just felt like everything was necessary." — Caroline Smith "Courage is having a crack, even if it means that you're potentially going to fall over or you're going to make a fool of yourself." — Caroline Smith "I think no one goes through life unscathed." — Cynthia Myssy See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

About the Guest Howard Brown is an advocate for victims of crime in Australia with over three decades of dedication to helping victims and their families navigate the judicial system. His journey into advocacy began after the traumatic murder of his client and friend, Andrew, in 1988. Howard's relentless commitment has led to significant legal reforms, including the integration of victim impact statements in the judicial process. He has served on influential bodies like the New South Wales Sentencing Council and the New South Wales Victims Advisory Board, earning him the Medal of the Order of Australia in 2004 for his extraordinary service. Key Takeaways: Howard Brown's advocacy work was initiated by personal tragedy, which spurred him to support victims through a frequently indifferent justice system. Victim impact statements, a significant reform Howard helped to implement, are crucial in ensuring victims' voices are heard in court. Despite the extensive personal and financial costs, Howard continues his work pro bono, driven by a profound sense of duty and capability. Howard’s expertise and passion have influenced major legal reforms in Australia, advocating for more transparent justice systems. His personal experiences with trauma, and disease have deepened his empathy and commitment to advocating for others. Notable Quotes: "Someone has to stand up." – Howard Brown reflecting on his decision to advocate after Andrew's murder. "Once the jury has reached a verdict… a judge then has to evaluate what type of punishment is appropriate for the defendant." – Howard on the importance of victim impact statements. "If you live a life devoid of emotion… you're a psychopath." – Highlighting the necessity of empathy in justice. "You need to support those people because dealing with such a tragedy is so enormously difficult." – Howard on supporting crime victims. "The Santa ethos has led my life the way it is." – Howard expressing how his education and upbringing shaped his values.

Monica Attard is a renowned Australian journalist celebrated for her work with the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC) as a foreign correspondent in Russia during the collapse of the Soviet Union, a tenure that earned her international recognition and the prestigious Gold Walkley Award. With a journalism career spanning more than four decades, she has been acknowledged with the Order of Australia Medal for her contributions to journalism. Currently, Monica serves as the head of journalism at the University of Technology Sydney (UTS), where she influences the next generation of journalists, focusing on ethics, truth-telling, and public accountability. Key Takeaways: Monica Attard's career was shaped significantly by her experiences as a foreign correspondent in Russia, particularly during the Soviet Union's collapse. The episode highlights the challenges journalists face in maintaining impartiality amidst a shifting media landscape and digital transformation. Monica emphasises the potential of young journalists to make meaningful impacts in the industry, provided they adhere to foundational ethics and objectivity. The discussion underscores the evolving nature of journalism, with emerging voices often blending advocacy with traditional reporting. Monica shares her personal journey and the influence of her educational background at Santa Sabina College on her career and ethical standards. Notable Quotes: "It's one of those things where you just never live it down and you regret forevermore that it was ever publicly known." - Monica Attard "The west didn't handle the collapse particularly well. And as a result, you know, we have Vladimir Putin motivated by grievance with the way the west has treated Russia." - Monica Attard "Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the geopolitics of the world has been kind of spun on its head." - Monica Attard "In my view, journalism that's not impartial is not journalism." - Monica Attard "I never, ever questioned my place in leadership. You know, I never did. I just never did." - Monica Attard Resources: Monica Attard's profile at the University of Technology Sydney: UTS Journalism Santa Sabina College Ex Students Association: Santa Sabina College For any thoughts, comments and suggestions regarding this episode, feel free to contact us at [email protected]. Join the conversation on Santa Sabina College Alumni Facebook Group. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.