Show Notes
There’s a line from a John O’Donahue poem that goes like this: “I would love to live like the river flows, carried by the surprise of its own unfolding.” What does it look like to be that free? To release the grip of control and trust in life’s unfolding? In this episode, Eunice Park embodies that river-like freedom in a radical way. For 50 months—over four years—she lived an itinerant, “wonky” life, moving every few days from convents and friaries to friends’ homes, often living out of a single bag with no fixed itinerary. Triggered by the loss of her father, a layoff during COVID, and a deep desire for rest and healing, Eunice stepped into a modern Franciscan journey that echoes the early days of Francis and his companions. Now back in one place and recalibrating to “normal” life, Eunice reflects on the profound lessons from her time on the road: the healing power of Franciscan spirituality in addressing guilt and shame cultures, the liberation found in the Franciscan emphasis on the Incarnation as an act of divine love rather than primarily a response to sin, and the surprising freedom that comes from embracing poverty of control. Through candid stories of convent beds, late-night kitchen raids, deep conversations with old ministry friends, and learning to receive hospitality, Eunice explores what it truly means to let ourselves be loved, to see ourselves as “pockets of joy” for others, and to practice openness in daily life. She shares how this journey revealed her own resiliency and tenacity while challenging her to release transactional mindsets and embrace mutuality in relationships. Whether you’re drawn to Franciscan theology, navigating ministry burnout, wrestling with self-worth, or simply longing for greater freedom and presence, this conversation offers rich wisdom on building community, choosing what we tether ourselves to, and living with open hands in a world that prizes control. Eunice J. Park is a spiritual life coach, retreat facilitator, multilingual kimchi maker, cultural critic, spiritual accompanist, cook, writer, crafter, musician, editor, hot-sauce brewer, and dinner party comic. Above all, she is a follower of Francis and Clare. (00:00:01) Introduction (00:02:02) Background (00:10:47) Itinerancy's Call and Struggles in Ministry (00:27:00) Reflection No. 1: Interrupting Patterns of the Heart and Mind (00:29:54) Gifts of Itinerancy (00:35:47) Understanding Franciscan Poverty (00:38:44) Theology of Worthiness (00:42:55) Reflection No. 2: Poverty of Control (00:45:38) The Joy of Receiving and Community Building (00:49:08) Allowing Oneself to be Loved (01:02:17) Reflection No. 3: 'You Are a Little Pocket of Joy for Someone Else' (01:04:44) Moving Beyond Transaction, Living Freely, and Knowing Yourself (01:11:38) 'Is this Building Community?' (01:14:45) Conclusion
More from Franciscan Spirit
What if the path to freedom isn’t found in finally becoming whole and complete but in learning to embrace our lack? This episode's guest, Peter Rollins, PhD, is a public intellectual known for his work in radical theology, psychoanalysis, and continental philosophy. In this conversation, Pete unpacks his life project, "pyrotheology," a provocative theological approach that invites us into an encounter with the mystery, division, and alienation at the heart of reality itself. Rather than promising wholeness through belief, success, self-improvement, or even traditional religion, pyrotheology suggests that true liberation comes when we stop fleeing our lack and discover that this very brokenness is shared—even woven into the absolute. Pyrotheology's emphasis on the Crucified God and relationality also makes way in this episode for dialogue about its fascinating overlaps with Franciscan theology. This conversation will stretch you, unsettle you, and perhaps even liberate you. Explore the show notes here. (00:00:01) Introduction (00:02:25) What is Pyrotheology? (00:07:50) The Danger in Promises of Wholeness and Completeness (00:15:28) Capitalism, Drive, Desire, and Enjoyment (00:20:01) Reflection No. 1: Sacred Objects and Desire (00:24:25) Cultivating Enjoyment (00:29:56) Hedonistic and Nihilistic Religions vs. Religions of the Absurd (00:36:50) Reflection No. 2: Christ Crucified and the San Damiano Cross (00:40:57) Community, Communion, and the Commons (00:46:24) Christ Crucified and the Eucharist (00:49:21) What About the Trinity? (00:57:43) The Apophatic Tradition and Catholicism (01:01:23) Parable: The Mystic, Evangelical, and Fundamentalist (01:04:26) Parable: Seamus Goes to Las Vegas (01:07:43) Relationality, Lack, and Love (01:11:50) Reflection No. 3: Letting Lack Guide Us (01:16:50) The Contemplative Mystical Tradition and Pyrotheology (01:20:50) Shared Alienation (01:25:33) What Does this Conversation Mean for Our Everyday Lives? (01:30:58) Conclusion
Politics, workplaces, education, sports...no matter where you look, it seems that so many avenues of American life are experiencing a crisis in leadership. What might the Franciscan posture of relationship, mutuality, and humble listening offer an age in crisis? Is there such a thing as Franciscan leadership, and if so, what is it? How have different leadership models evolved throughout history, and where might they be leading us? Sara P. Marks is the founder and CEO of Fina Catalysts LLC (https://finacatalysts.wordpress.com). Sara works with Catholic nonprofits to transform organizations for a mission-driven future. She facilitates congregational assemblies and chapters, works with leadership teams, associate communities, and leads retreat experiences grounded in charism and mission. As a former vowed Franciscan, she understands the intricacies of religious life and the unique challenges congregations face in the 21st Century. Sara holds a bachelor’s degree from West Chester University in Literature and a master’s from The University of Dayton in Pastoral Ministry. She is currently working on her PhD in Organizational Leadership with a concentration in nonprofit and public administration at Eastern University. (00:00:01) Introduction (00:03:13) Leadership Background and Experiences (00:10:20) Adaptive Leadership (00:17:00) Reflection No. 1: Exploring Servant and Adaptive Leadership (00:21:50) Impact of Personal Experiences on Leadership (00:25:48) Franciscan Leadership: Listening, Relationships, and Sine Proprio (00:35:24) Reflection No. 2: Exploring Sine Proprio and the Essence of Ideas (00:39:05) Adaptive Leadership: The Challenge of Making Decisions (00:41:27) Evolving Leadership Models and Integrating Franciscan Principles (00:48:52) Addressing the Crisis of Leadership in Society (00:54:39) Franciscan Community and Political Discourse (00:57:42) Reflection No. 3: Considering the Whole in Political Discourse (01:03:30) Navigating Political Differences with Grace (01:11:21) The Role of Technology in Dialogue (01:15:25) The Call for a Franciscan Renaissance and Posture (01:24:39) Conclusion
Daniel P. Horan, PhD, a longtime Thomas Merton scholar, professor, and author of a book on Merton’s deep Franciscan roots, sits down to discuss how the Franciscan tradition helped shape the journey and spirituality of Thomas Merton, one of the 20th century’s most influential contemplatives. Horan discusses Merton’s surprising path that led him deep into the Franciscan tradition and the fascinating details as to why he became a Trappist monk instead of a Franciscan friar; how John Duns Scotus’s idea of particularity shaped Merton’s famous teaching about the true self and false self; and how both Scotus and St. Bonaventure informed Merton’s expansive Christology. Lastly, Horan unpacks how a life grounded in contemplation freed Merton for prophetic engagement in the world, inter-religious dialogue, and exploring some of the most pressing social questions of his time. Whether you’re a longtime Merton reader or just beginning to explore the Franciscan tradition, this conversation reveals how deeply the two are intertwined—and why both still speak so powerfully and prophetically to us today. Throughout the episode, Horan relates Merton's journey to ours and explores why his spirituality is so important for us to consider today. If you’re interested in supporting this podcast and donating, visit friars.us or franciscanfriarscharities.org. Daniel P. Horan, PhD, is Professor of Philosophy, Religious Studies and Theology at Saint Mary’s College in Notre Dame, Indiana. A columnist for the National Catholic Reporter, he is the author or editor of sixteen books, including Catholicity and Emerging Personhood: A Contemporary Theological Anthropology, A White Catholic’s Guide to Racism and Privilege, and The Way of the Franciscans: A Prayer Journey Through Lent. Prof. Horan’s most recent books are titled Engaging Thomas Merton: Spirituality, Justice, and Racism and Fear and Faith: Hope and Wholeness in a Fractured World. He is currently working on a book on Christology tentatively titled, Not Because of Sin: Reconsidering the Reason God Became Human. His academic research, writing, and teaching focuses on medieval and contemporary spirituality, medieval and modern philosophy, theological anthropology, Christology, antiracism and LGBTQ issues, and theologies of creation. Prof. Horan regularly lectures around the United States and abroad; and serves on several university, academic, and publication editorial boards, including the Board of Directors of the Catholic Theological Society of America and the Society for the Study of Christian Spirituality. He is recipient of numerous awards for his writing and service and is co-host of The Francis Effect Podcast. Explore the show notes here. (00:00:01) Introduction (00:03:50) Thomas Merton: Spiritual Companion (00:10:43) Rain and the Rhinoceros (00:15:14) Merton and the Franciscan Tradition (00:23:44) Why Merton Never Became a Franciscan Friar (00:31:42) The Impact of a Franciscan Education on Merton (00:35:16) How Scotus Informed Merton's Writings on the True Self (00:48:30) How Scotus and Bonaventure Informed Merton's Christology (00:58:33) Franciscanism in Merton's Later Works (01:06:41) Final Thoughts (01:08:18) Conclusion
The focus of this special feast day episode is St. Clare of Assisi’s remarkable, poetic letters to another woman of nobility, St. Agnes of Prague. Guiding listeners through these four letters is Sister Joanne Schatzlein, OSF, a Franciscan scholar, co-author of a major study on Clare of Assisi, and lifelong student of her spirituality. Sister Joanne is a member of the Sisters of St. Francis of Assisi, whose Motherhouse is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. She is a native of Minneapolis, Minnesota, and entered her Congregation in 1965. In this episode, Sister Joanne echoes to us Clare's invitation to Agnes: to gaze, consider, contemplate, and imitate in our lives what Christ has taught us. (00:00:01) Introduction (00:05:24) Background (00:11:21) Agnes and Clare’s Correspondence (00:21:23) First Letter: Spousal Language (00:25:26) First Letter: Absolute Poverty (00:30:27) Second Letter: Background and Introduction (00:35:12) What is Franciscan Poverty Today? (00:43:37) Second Letter: God's Poverty and Humility; Clare's Formula for Prayer (00:52:52) Third Letter: Background and Introduction (00:55:59) Third Letter: Mirror of Eternity, Stigmata, and the San Damiano Cross (00:1:04:13) Third Letter: Embracing the Poor Christ (01:09:38) Fourth Letter: The Mystical Letter (01:12:28) Fourth Letter: Mirror Metaphor; Oneness with the Suffering Christ (01:18:23) Fourth Letter: Franciscan Relationality, Follower of Francis (01:21:47) Benediction (01:23:57) Conclusion
In a time when loneliness and disconnection are at historic highs, how can resurrecting community help us awaken to what Thomas Merton called our “true selves”? In an age of division, how might principles from the Franciscan way help us to uncover our “original unity”? What does real, authentic, diverse community look like today? And what does Pope Leo’s new encyclical Magnifica Humanitas say about using digital tools to build a universal human family? What might a digital “piazza” offer in this technological age? This episode’s guest is Julianne Wallace, D.Min., the executive director of the Franciscan Federation and a ministry professional deeply rooted in the Franciscan tradition. Throughout her career, Julianne has worked with all branches of the Franciscan family—friars, sisters, secular Franciscans, associates, as well as serving a year with the Franciscan Volunteer Ministry—and she continues to build bridges and foster collaboration across the wider Franciscan world. The Franciscan Federation is a member organization that brings together vowed religious, secular Franciscans, associates, and all who seek to live out a Franciscan life today. The Federation also hosts the Piazza, a digital gathering place inspired by the Piazza del Comune in Assisi, where people from every Franciscan path can meet, pray, learn, and build community together. To learn more about Fran Fed, visit www.franfed.org. To join the Piazza, visit thepiazza.franfed.org. View the show notes here. (00:00:01) Introduction (00:02:33) Exploring the Franciscan Federation (00:07:06) The Piazza Project: A Digital Community (00:19:01) The True Self and the Common Good (00:27:14) Reflection No. 1: Deep Gladness and Deep Need (00:29:57) Masks and Ego (00:34:38) From Communication to Communion (00:42:39) Reflection No. 2: Moving Toward Communion (00:45:10) Echo Chambers and the Role of Community (00:55:57) Reflection No. 3: Remembering Who We Are (00:59:40) Exploring Magnifica Humanitas (1:07:03) In the Footsteps of Mary Magdalene (1:14:10) Final Thoughts and Conclusion