Intent to understand: Embracing human limits as our ultimate guide with Nancy McWilliams
The Art of ListeningShow Notes
Nancy McWilliams is renowned for her immense contributions to the field of Psychotherapy and Psychoanalysis. Her career, which spans six decades, has included roles in teaching, private practice, writing, and speaking. Of the many, Dr. McWilliams’ awards and achievements include the Gradiva prize, the Erikson Scholar award, and leadership, scholarship, and international academic excellence awards from Division 39 of the American Psychological Association. Clinicians of every theoretical persuasion appreciate her ability to translate complex theory, implications of research, and even the human dynamics between different subgroups within the profession defined most broadly into simply human and accessible language.
In this brief and personal moment we share with Nancy in this episode, she touches on a nuance of listening to understand and be understood that doesn’t receive much attention. We seek to understand as clinicians dedicated to healing. We all yearn to be understood in the most personal and authentic way. But what people need and appreciate more than perfect understanding is to experience the effort – the ‘intent’ – to be understood. That’s what makes the space between us as fellow humans work. That’s what makes it count. As Nancy said, reiterating the fruits of much research, the outcome of work in therapy is determined by the fit and the relationship between speaker and listener, therapist and patient. In this episode of The Art of Listening, Nancy will tell us how the power of the therapeutic process hinges on listening with the intent to understand, listening beyond reacting, listening for the meaning, the wisdom there to be received – for speaker and listener, patient and therapist.
Chapters 1 - The scientific benefits of therapeutic practice (3:59) 2 - The difficulty of listening and processing (5:23) 3 - How Nancy’s mother taught her how to listen (7:52) 4 - The difference between knowledge and wisdom (12:23) 5 - Where psychotherapy and academia do and don’t intersect (16:19) Links Nancy McWilliams Nancy’s Books Eileen Dunn’s Website
More from The Art of Listening
Listening – it’s the cornerstone of human connection, yet the intricacies of depth therapy often remain hidden behind closed doors, bound by confidentiality. What if we could bring these transformative conversations into the public sphere and reveal the true magic that occurs within the therapeutic encounter? I’m Eileen Dunn, the voice behind The Art of Listening, and these are the very questions that led me to the creation of this podcast. As a psychoanalyst and clinical psychologist, my life’s work has been dedicated to uncovering the power of depth therapy, where the roles of speaker and listener are crucial to fostering personal growth and healing. Throughout this series, we've welcomed a range of guests, each with their own voice, insights, and experience. All committed to the human-to-human relationships at the heart of therapeutic transformation. So to conclude this series today, I wanted to share my own story and reflect on the creative process behind this podcast. In this final episode, we embark on the personal journey that led me to the field of clinical psychology. We consider the moments of pain and triumph that shaped my approach and helped me form the big questions that have consistently driven my work. And as we come to a close, I’ll share what I’m taking away from each of our distinguished guests, to draw meaningful, long-lasting lessons from the Art of Listening. Join me in this final episode as we delve into the heart of what makes listening so transformative.
We often think of our conscious experience as one driven by language. Our thoughts are shaped by words; our emotions processed in conversation. Yet, while language is a sharp tool for expression, the level of detail and nuance it affords us can also get us lost. And like many other animals, we communicate our needs before we’re able to speak. So what if consciousness, the quality of being us in the privacy of our mind, was in fact something else?
The children we once were will always stay with us. And when we drift back to treasured moments from childhood, we find that our play was a great source of growth. Games, toys, and play-pretends helped us explore the world; they taught us how to interact with others and express our ideas for the first time. In fact, playing was integral to our personal development. So why did we ever give it up? And what happens when we continue to play, as adults? Our guest Sarah Abel has dedicated her career to these questions. Sarah is a “reluctant adult”, a former teacher and social worker, who now works as a psychotherapist. She has spent 20 years in private practice, working with a range of patients, including children and adults. Her focus has always been to explore the dynamics of childhood development and recognize the value of play within our lives and within the therapeutic setting. On this episode of the Art of Listening, Sarah Abel takes us on a nostalgic journey back to our childhoods. Together, we reflect on the significance of play, exploring how it shapes our understanding of the world. We discuss how our bonds with our family define how we go on to interact with the world. And we delve into the power of play to reshape who we are and express ourselves in new ways, finding that in the psychoanalytic environment, play can knock down barriers between patient and therapist, and facilitate growth.
When you think of a familiar memory, colors, images, scents and emotions can come to mind. Our imaginations hold the ability to transform even the simplest of experiences into sensorial memories. It is this same creativity that resides at the heart of the therapeutic hour. Inside the confines of the therapy room, we possess the power to recreate images that encapsulate our inner worlds and give voice to the thoughts and emotions that accompany us day after day.
In the hustle and bustle of our daily lives, some words of advice keep coming back around: “Look after yourself”, “self-care first”... Simple, in theory. But how do we truly prioritize our well-being? What can we do to build confidence and strength, and balance out our emotions, when life challenges us? Today’s guest has long grappled with these fundamental questions.