455: Jean-Pierre de Smet and the Burgundy Community

Cory Empting is Managing Director of Winegrowing at Domain H. William Harlan, overseeing Harlan Estate, BOND, Promontory, and The Mascot in the Napa Valley of California. Cory recounts his memories of growing up in the Napa Valley and learning about winemaking from the age of 15. He recalls running around The French Laundry as a kid and helping out with a harvest at Forman Vineyard. He also talks about his first experiences at Harlan Estate, a property where he has now worked for decades. Cory discusses why he decided to pursue a career at Harlan, which led to being named the Winemaker of the property years later. Cory talks about Bob Levy, the Founding Winemaker of Harlan Estate, who Cory still works with today. He also describes working for Bill Harlan and Will Harlan, the owners of the property. Cory talks about the 1997 vintage at Harlan Estate, and his experiences tasting that wine over the years. He also shares some thoughts about the ageing trajectory of Harlan wines in general. Cory discusses the Harlan property itself and contrasts it with the nearby Promontory vineyard, then describes how the winemaking approach for Promontory evolved over time. This leads into a discussion of how the approach at Harlan Estate has changed over the years, both in terms of the farming and the winemaking. One key change has been the move to dry farming (without irrigation), and Cory talks about the implications of that shift. Other topics that emerge in the discussion include soil health, head trained vines, vineyard exposure, harvest date, native yeast fermentation, fermentation temperature, stem inclusion, extraction, tannin management, avoiding acidification, the duration of malolactic conversion, press wine, and the length of élevage. Amidst this discussion Cory emphasizes his respect for Bob Levy’s accomplishments and frames the shifts at Harlan over time as a natural evolution in a multi-generational business. Cory shares the terrible circumstances surrounding the wildfires in the Napa Valley in 2017, and what his family experienced during that time. He also grapples with how that harvest redefined his thinking about the winemaking. After that experience in 2017, Cory reviewed harvest records from previous decades and started thinking more about the winemaking of the past in the Napa Valley. This coincided with Cory having more encounters with older vintages of Napa wines. Farming is discussed in-depth, as Cory shares his thoughts on the language of plants and interacting with vines. A significant outcome of the work in the vines at Harlan has been earlier ripening as an outcome of dry farming. Cory recognizes members of his team who made key contributions to the work in the vines on the property, including the Castellanos brothers and Francisco Gonzalez. He also touches on the significant differences between different vineyard parcels within Harlan Estate, both in terms of vineyard work and exposure. The subject of multi-generational wineries comes to the fore as Cory discusses internal dynamics at the workplace between winemakers and ownership. In 2020, wildfire reappeared in the Napa Valley, and Cory made a decision to harvest weeks earlier than had been the norm at Harlan Estate in the 2000s. He refers to that decision as “an inflection point” for Harlan Estate and shares his reasoning in this interview. The question of whether wildfires are part of a new climate reality for Napa is addressed in this interview, and Cory talks about the relation of farming and climate to wine style. He also shares his thoughts on how smoke taint may alter the tannins of a wine. He closes with the thought that his team is currently learning and adjusting at a faster pace.

Peter Jakob Kühn made the wines at Weingut Peter Jakob Kühn in Germany's Rheingau region for many decades before retiring and passing the family winery on to his son Peter Bernhard Kühn.

Matt Dees is the winemaker at JONATA, The Hilt, and The Paring, wineries which are located in California's Santa Barbara County. Matt recalls studying plant and soil science, and then his first job at a winery, at Shelburne Vineyard in Vermont. He then describes a chance encounter with a bottle of Staglin Family Cabernet Sauvignon, which prompted a phone call to the Staglin family and a trip to California to visit. Soon enough, Matt was working at Staglin, alternating between vintages there and in New Zealand at Craggy Range Winery. Matt discusses various early influences on his winemaking, including Andy Erickson, Doug Wiser, Adrian Baker, and Michel Rolland. He touches on learning to blend for texture and structure, with an approach to blending for the mid-palate. Matt also notes the handling of press wines, and when blending decisions are made. He talks about avoiding blending for aromatics. Matt contrasts the harvest conditions in New Zealand and in the Napa Valley in the early 2000s, as well as the resulting wines. He further talks about how some of the elements of each can be found in the wines of Santa Barbara County, and about his own transition to making wines there at JONATA. He emphasizes the diurnal shift in Ballard Canyon, the difference between the daytime and nighttime temperatures in the vineyard. Matt speaks of Santa Barbara County - and specifically Ballard Canyon - as a young region, noting the wide range of grape varieties that have been planted at JONATA as they try to figure out what works well at the site. Matt also addresses the ageing curve of the JONATA wines. He distinguishes between ageing as surviving and ageing as evolving. Matt addresses the fundamentals of the wines that he is responsible for, including harvesting and winemaking decisions. He details his approach to picking Sauvignon Blanc at different ripeness levels for the same eventual wine. He talks about a purity of fruit as an overrated concept, and explains his approach to Cabernet Franc. He shares the nuances behind picking decisions for Cabernet Franc, Syrah, and Sangiovese. He touches on the peculiarities of Sangiovese during fermentation and maturation. Matt also addresses what is necessary for a successful Merlot. He talks about Viognier, and whether or not he blends some into his Syrah. In terms of vineyard decisions, Matt discusses own rooted Cabernet Franc and Syrah, and what possibilities own rooted vines present. He talks about trial blocks of Assyrtiko, Picolit, Furmint, Xinomavro, and possibly Nerello Mascalese, as he searches for grape varieties that may do well in drought conditions. Building on that discussion, Matt touches on the characteristics of Xinomavro and Assyrtiko as wines from Ballard Canyon. After the owners of JONATA purchased further properties, Matt was presented with the opportunity to make regular trips to Burgundy, and to produce Chardonnay and Pinot Noir for The Hilt. The Hilt is centered around the vineyards of Radian and Bentrock in the Southwest corner of the Sta. Rita Hills appellation, in California. Matt talks about that area and those vineyards specifically; discussing the exposition, soil type, and peculiarities of the sites. He talks about the wines from Radian and Bentrock, which include Chardonnay, Pinot Noir, Riesling, and Syrah. He details the winemaking protocols for both the Pinot Noir and the Chardonnay, and how his approach to both has changed over time. He talks about what may happen next at the property. He shares as well a frank discussion of drinking windows for Sta. Rita Hills wines. This episode also features commentary from: Andy Erickson, who co-owns Favia Wines and consults for a number of other wineries in California

Meike Näkel and her sister Dörte run the Meyer-Näkel winery in the Ahr region of Germany.

Richard Sanford co-founded the Sanford and Benedict Winery and planted the Sanford and Benedict Vineyard. He founded the Sanford Winery, and he also founded the Alma Rosa Winery, all in Santa Barbara County, California.