How A Dad Changed His Parenting To Stop Fighting His Child With Pathological Demand Avoidance: An Interview With My Husband | Ep. 164
At Peace Parents PodcastShow Notes
This episode is an interview with my husband, Jake, about his path from well-founded skepticism of Pathological Demand Avoidance to fully changing his parenting to support our two PDA sons, and how that has helped all three of them. This conversation is for parents who aren't sure about PDA, their partners who are, and everyone who has wondered what it actually looks like to shift the paradigm as the "non-lead" parent. Jake talks about the enforcer role he played, dreading coming home from work, what brought him to shift his perspective, and how he took action to change his relationships with his sons. Key Takeaways
Why Non-Lead Parents Lag and Why That Is Not a Deficiency | 00:10:01 Jake explains that his skepticism about pathological demand avoidance came from the same place as his desire to be a good father: wanting his son to be okay long after he was gone. He names the specific experience of not being present enough during the day to witness what Casey was witnessing, the cognitive dissonance of a child who could race through Halloween trick-or-treating and then suddenly be unable to walk, and the ease with which behaviors that look manipulative can be written off as such. He is clear that lagging does not make a parent deficient. It makes them human.
What the Enforcer Role Actually Felt Like | 00:24:12 Jake describes placing himself in the role of the disciplinarian and enforcer when Cooper was young, trying strict and punitive approaches consistently enough to know they were not working. He reflects on the moments when Cooper would submit, and how even those felt awful because he was a grown adult overpowering a four-year-old. He names the specific appeal of the pathological demand avoidance approach as not just intellectual but personal: he did not want to be that kind of dad, and the relational damage it was doing to his connection with Cooper was undeniable.
Dreading 5PM and the Second Arrow | 00:43:44 Jake describes a period when he went from counting down the hours to the end of the workday to dreading them, knowing he was walking back into a home where the kids were dysregulated, Casey was stretched to her limit, and there was no joy. He names the second arrow clearly: feeling like a dad who dreads his own family, and then feeling guilty for that. He offers this not as a confession but as something he suspects many non-lead parents are sitting with quietly.
The Trampoline Commitment and What It Built | 00:44:23 Jake shares a concrete example of how he found a way into connection with Cooper during burnout: committing to saying yes every time Cooper asked to go on the trampoline, even though the activity involved Cooper lying there while Jake jumped for twenty minutes. He frames it honestly as work, not fun fatherhood. But he also describes how, when his legs gave out and he lay down next to his son and started pointing at clouds, the small moments of connection began to accumulate. This type of commitment, he says, may be available to other parents who work full days and only have evenings.
Vulnerability With Other Dads and the Masculinity Frame | 00:29:46 Jake reflects on coaching Cooper's tackle football team and the specific difficulty of needing other coaches to understand that Cooper's meltdowns were not a measure of his commitment or character, while knowing that a full explanation of Pathological Demand Avoidance would not land. He names the fear of judgment, and the discomfort of demonstrating vulnerability in a context that did not historically make space for it. He frames the masculine enforcer archetype as a stereotype that most men do not actually identify with but feel bound by because breaking it is a risk.
Relevant Resources
Understanding PDA — Free class with the foundational context that Jake describes eventually coming to through lived experience Burnout — Free class relevant to the burnout phases with both Cooper and William that Jake discusses throughout Paradigm Shift Program — Our sign
More from At Peace Parents Podcast
Halloween is exciting. It is also activating. And if your child is in burnout, near their threshold, or simply wired in a way that makes novelty and sensory overload feel threatening rather than fun, even a holiday you love can become a source of dread for the whole family. In this episode I share five tips for navigating Halloween with a PDA child or teen, drawn from seven years of doing it imperfectly in my own home. I cover what to do if your child cannot access the holiday at all this year, how to think about autonomy and demand lowering as two distinct accommodations, why traditions still count even when they look like chaos, and why letting go of please and thank you on the doorstep may actually be the most effective thing you do all night. Key Takeaways
Why do accommodations like lowering demands, providing autonomy, and using declarative language actually work for PDA children and teens over the long term? And why do so many parents, therapists, and teachers get stuck applying them even when they understand the concept? In this episode, an excerpt from a live workshop I taught in 2024, I walk through what I call the theory of change for PDA: the logic that explains why these accommodations shift things at a nervous system level. I cover the two most common places where people get stuck, how to tell the difference between an accommodation and a reward, and why lowering demands alone is necessary but not sufficient for the transformation families are working toward. Key Takeaways
It is back to school season here in the US, and for most families raising PDA children and teens, that means navigating one of the most structurally activating environments their child will ever encounter. I am back with Dr. Alex Klein, clinical psychologist, to talk through what we are each seeing this fall and what we have learned over years of working with and being parents of neurodivergent children. In this episode we cover how to understand PDA as it plays out in school, why masking is real and why schools often do not believe parents, how to communicate about a PDA child's needs without leading with a label that gets dismissed, and the highest impact accommodations Dr. Klein and I have each found to be worth fighting for. We also talk honestly about what happens when schools are not allies and what families can do when the onus falls almost entirely on the parent. Key Takeaways
Should my PDA child stay in the public school system, move to a private school, or homeschool? There is no single answer, and this episode is not going to give you one. What it is going to give you is a framework for making the decision that fits your child, your constraints, and this specific season of your family. In this episode I walk through all five characteristics of PDA as they play out in a school or home setting, then move into the three schooling scenarios I see families navigate most: staying in the public school system and advocating for accommodations, finding a private school that is structurally more aligned with a PDA nervous system, and pulling your child out entirely to unschool, deschool, or homeschool. For each one I share what to watch for, what has worked for the families I have coached, and how to use the cost-benefit framework to make and hold a decision even when it is hard. Key Takeaways
Why are so many children and teens struggling with anxiety, depression, and school refusal right now? And why are so many of them PDA? I have been carrying these questions for years, and Dr. Peter Gray's new book Restoring Childhood gave me a framework I did not have before. Dr. Peter Gray is a research professor of psychology and neuroscience at Boston College, founder of the nonprofit Let Grow, and author of Free to Learn and, just published this month, Restoring Childhood, How to Set Kids Free in the Age of Anxiety. In this episode we talk about what play actually is and why it matters for development, why the evidence does not support that screens and social media are the primary driver of the youth mental health crisis, and what has actually been happening to children's autonomy and mental health since the 1950s. We also talk about his own son, who he believes would have been identified as PDA, and how that son changed the entire trajectory of Dr. Gray's research and writing. Key Takeaways