EP29 | Francis Chan’s Public Apology: Does It Go Far Enough? | With Doug Geivett

Was Alisa Childers right to warn people about Josh Howerton and Josh McPherson’s teachings on church leadership? By the time you finish listening to this episode, you’ll not only know whether Alisa’s warning was justified, but you’ll also learn 3 specific markers of dangerous, apostle-style church governance—even when pastors don't explicitly use the word "apostle." 📌 Episode OverviewIn this episode, we break down the online debate that erupted after Alisa Childers shared a clip from the Resurge podcast, hosted by Josh Howerton (Lakepointe Church) and Josh McPherson (Grace City Church / Stronger Man Nation). While defenders accuse Alisa of slander, misrepresentation, and "barking up the wrong tree," a closer look at Howerton and McPherson's statements reveals a deeply concerning shift toward New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)-style top-down governance. Drawing on over two decades of research into the NAR movement and co-authoring four books on the topic, I walk through the original podcast, address recent rebuttals, analyze Howerton's statements on "convening apostles," and show why Alisa’s warnings are fully warranted. 🔑 Key Takeaways & Discussion PointsThe 3 Markers of NAR Governance in the Church: The Role of the Senior Pastor: How viewing the lead pastor as the uniquely "anointed" man at the top mirrors NAR apostolic authority.

Can Christians in a spiritually mismatched marriage preserve their union while keeping a clear conscience before God?

Doctrinal soundness, quite simply, is not enough. A church can be biblically sound and still be led by unaccountable, unhealthy leadership.

How do you know if a church is actually solid? In this episode, Holly breaks down what to look for: biblically sound teaching and healthy leadership, not perfection.

Kathryn Krick, the 35-year-old lead pastor of 5F Church in Los Angeles, has gone viral for her dramatic deliverance services, theatrical style, and followers laying gifts at her feet. But while critics label her a "cult leader," many are missing a much bigger threat. In this episode, Holly reveals the critical mistake people make when evaluating flashy figures like Krick: assuming the danger is limited to sensational performers. Behind Krick’s viral clips is a core doctrine standard across the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)—the "Fivefold Ministry." Holly breaks down how NAR teachings, apostolic authority, and coded language like "Mama" and "Papa" are being promoted by soft-spoken, seemingly balanced pastors in local churches nationwide.