51. Worlds (w/ Federico Campagna)

Federico Campagna, a philosopher and writer, explores the intersection of metaphysics, technology, and societal structures in a recent discussion. He emphasizes the importance of metaphysical frameworks in shaping our understanding of reality and argues that these frameworks are not merely abstract concepts but actively influence how we perceive and interact with the world. Campagna critiques the notion that metaphysics is elitist, suggesting instead that it is a fundamental process through which individuals can engage with and reshape their realities.

Campagna draws on the ideas of Deleuze and Guattari, describing reality as a "machine" that operates on a set of assumptions about existence. He highlights the role of imagination in world-building, asserting that individuals create their own worlds through personal and collective metaphysical agreements. This process, he argues, is crucial in understanding contemporary issues, such as the narratives surrounding artificial intelligence, which he believes are often framed as inevitable and apocalyptic by those in power. He warns against accepting these narratives without question, suggesting they serve to reinforce existing power structures rather than reflect an unchangeable reality.

In discussing the implications of technology, Campagna critiques the tendency to view AI and other advancements as inherently progressive or inevitable. He argues that such perspectives overlook the intentionality behind these technologies, which are often designed to serve specific interests within the capitalist framework. He calls for a reevaluation of how we engage with technology, advocating for a more nuanced understanding that recognizes the potential for resistance and reimagining of our collective futures. Ultimately, Campagna's insights challenge listeners to reconsider the metaphysical underpinnings of their beliefs and the narratives that shape their understanding of the world.

Sorry this took so long we published a major whitepaper and went on tour ok???? But we've got a ton in the chamber we're back we're so back thanks for your patience.

We’re joined by Federico Campagna: philosopher and writer and magic man in his own right. Campagna is associate fellow at the Warburg Institute, for years the rights director at Verso, and author of Technic and Magic (2018), Prophetic Culture (2021) and Otherworlds (2025). He also co-created Agora with Andrea Bellini at the Centre d’Art Contemporain Genève, a stipended semester of art and philosophy whose lectures are released free afterwards.

What can anyone say about Reality itself? Nearly the whole conversation is about worlding, the subject of the book Campagna is writing now for 2027. For Campagna a world gets built in exactly one place, the individual imagination, which cuts the continuum of Reality (capital R) into separate beings. He calls the faculty doing the cutting language, in a sense wide enough to include mathematics and dancing, which picks up right where our episode with Beatrice Fazi and co. on the cut left off.

The cut creates its objects for the first time: France exists because people decided to invent it, and once invented it can tell them who to kill. The trouble starts when you bring the shared metaphysics home and see a human in the mirror, which for Campagna is the moment you “stop being a creator and you become a creature.

The last twenty minutes are a real fight. Campagna reads AI as a tool made by the top of the capitalist class, which past a certain amount trades in power instead of money, to erase the last theoretical leverage of workers. Marek pushes back hard: AI came out of cybernetics and deep learning long before it met labor exploitation, Simondon gives technical objects a pull of their own, and Marc Andreessen matters more than Peter Thiel or Elon Musk. Campagna holds his ground with grammar (“real fucking innovation”), the sonnet and the surname, all technologies on his account, and proposes that we stop calling AI technology until we call the alphabet one too. Banger.