Ex John Lewis Boss: Why The Best Leaders Are Impossible to Read | Sharon White

Welcome to What We Don't Know with Matt Brittin & Hayaatun Sillem.

The show about better leadership in a truly chaotic world.

Across the series, episodes are joined a range of other leading figures, bringing different perspectives to each conversation.

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This week, Hayaatun is joined by Jimmy McLoughlin OBE, host of ⁨@jimmysjobs⁩ , to welcome Baroness Sharon White.

Sharon White traces her journey from a working-class East London childhood — daughter of Windrush generation parents who left school at 11 and 14 — through 26 years as one of Whitehall's most senior but deliberately invisible civil servants, to leading OFCOM and later the John Lewis Partnership through COVID and financial turbulence.

She shares why being impossible to read became a strategic asset, how the insider/outsider experience of growing up as a minority shaped her willingness to hold unpopular positions, and why she believes the problems facing political leaders today are categorically harder than a generation ago.

She reflects on what it takes to lead 80,000 partners through a democratic business structure unlike anything in the private sector, why a reluctant regulator is a better regulator, and how to tell the difference between noise and what's actually real when everything feels urgent.

She also discusses building crisis-ready teams before the crisis hits, the leadership skill she thinks nobody talks about enough — and what her teenage son taught her about inclusion.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

01:38 Introducing Sharon White

03:56 What To Expect Today

04:30 Backstage At Number 10

06:53 Politics In The Social Media Age

08:36 Childhood And Immigrant Roots

13:43 Finding Her Voice

20:02 Purpose Across Career Switches

29:03 Earning Trust In New Worlds

32:50 Becoming Public Facing

36:40 Reluctant Regulator Mindset

40:28 Partnership Democracy Model

41:12 Customer Love and Stakeholders

43:20 Employee Ownership Pride

45:25 Resilience and Gratitude Mindset

47:30 Growth Needs Brave Leadership

51:12 Leading Through Constant Crises

53:07 Parenthood and Inclusion Lessons

56:18 Bravery and De Klerk Story

59:05 Quickfire Leadership Questions

01:01:33 Hosts Reflect on Key Takeaways

01:07:33 Duolingo Taxi Hiring Test

01:11:54 Meta AI Leader Avatars Debate

01:14:12 Wrap Up and Stay Connected

Credits:

Producer: Sunny Winter

Producer: Thuy Dong

Producer: Jimmy McLoughlin OBE Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices