Summary
Chris Finlayson and Phil Goff host a live podcast at Kew Theatre in Auckland, celebrating the venue's 15th anniversary. They engage in a lively discussion about New Zealand politics, touching on recent events, including the government's performance and the Prime Minister's controversial comments regarding a potential referendum on the MMP electoral system. Finlayson shares insights from his recent trip to Samoa, while Goff reflects on the political climate, highlighting the challenges faced by the current government, particularly concerning economic issues and public sentiment.
The conversation shifts to former Prime Minister Helen Clark, who joins the stage as a special guest. Clark discusses her political journey and the evolution of her social democratic values, emphasizing the importance of representation in parliament. The trio delves into the implications of recent political developments, including the rise of populism and the challenges it poses to traditional political structures. They express concerns over the impact of right-wing populism globally and the need for a renewed commitment to international institutions and the rule of law.
As the discussion progresses, they address the situation in the West Bank and the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict, with Clark sharing her observations from a recent visit. She underscores the urgency of finding a peaceful resolution and the role of international actors in facilitating dialogue. The episode concludes with a focus on the arts and cultural sector in New Zealand, with a call for renewed investment to support the creative industries, which are seen as vital for both economic growth and national identity.
Show Notes
Hosted by Phil Goff and Chris Finlayson, Cross Party Lines goes live at Q Theatre in Auckland — with a very special guest: the Right Honourable Helen Clark, former Prime Minister, former UNDP Administrator and member of The Elders. An episode that moves from a government having a terrible week to the West Bank, and doesn’t pull a single punch along the way. All thanks to Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi Owned Insurance Brokerage. Find out more at frankrisk.co.nz. In this episode: * A bad week for Luxon, a worse week for Peters — and a referendum nobody asked for — The week opened with unemployment at 5.6% nationally, 6.5% in Auckland — the highest in eleven years — wages up 2% against inflation running at 4.1%, and Labour leading National on all five of the top issues in the Ipsos poll. Then came Luxon’s comments to small businesses — essentially telling them to stand on their own feet — which he backtracked on within hours. Helen’s verdict is pointed: to change something as fundamental as the electoral system, you need a royal commission, a proper process and a mandate — not a prime minister who’s sick of his coalition partners. * Populism, The Elders and the rise of the illiberal right — Chris is reading a book called Centrists of the World Unite and using it as a frame for the episode’s most wide-ranging conversation. He is genuinely alarmed: a potential President Le Pen next year, the AFD in Germany and Pauline Hanson in Australia. Helen welcomes Andy Burnham as a confident new leader capable of dispatching Farage and makes the structural point: social democratic and liberal centre parties have failed to build the kind of cross-bloc flexibility that the German FDP or the British Liberal Democrats offered at their best. The Opportunities Party, both Chris and Helen note, may be trying to fill that space — though Helen is sceptical of their land tax, and Phil’s concern remains unchanged: a TOP vote that falls below 5% is a vote for the status quo. * The West Bank, Gaza and Palestine disappearing before our eyes — Helen has just returned from her third visit to the West Bank as part of The Elders’ work, and her account is one of the most vivid and sobering of any episode. Seven hundred thousand illegal settlers. Israeli flags lining the roads into Palestinian villages. Tear gas thrown into schoolyards. Olive groves inaccessible. A village with one road in after the other was closed. Her conclusion, shared with The Elders: Palestine is disappearing before our eyes. Along the way: Paul Henry naming Helen Clark as the most impressive politician of recent decades, the SIS agent thrown down the stairs of the Political Studies Department in the 1970s, Raybon Kan’s line that when Peters told him to go back where he came from, he was relieved it wasn’t back to the third world — or Masterton. Warm, historically rich and more emotionally charged than any episode before it, this live show is a reminder that the best political conversation happens when three people who have actually done the job sit in a room and tell the truth. Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too. 🎙 This was our Auckland live show at Q Theatre. Wellington’s Hannah Playhouse is next — with special guest Tracey Martin. Follow us so you don’t miss the announcement.
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More from Cross Party Lines
Hosted by Phil Goff and Chris Finlayson, Cross Party Lines returns with twelve days to go — early voting open, the rolls closed, and the campaign entering its most consequential stretch. This week: the threat to politicians’ personal safety, the Labour candidate stood down over the gang visit, a Future Generations Commissioner that Chris is openly evangelical about, and New Zealand First’s $71 billion in promises with no plan to pay for them. All thanks to our foundational partner, Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi-owned insurance brokerage. In this episode: * The safety of politicians — and the democracy it protects — The episode opens on a subject both men clearly feel deeply: the attack on Australian independent MP Helen Haines, who lost both legs, is the most extreme example of a trend that Australian authorities say has seen serious death threats against politicians rise from 300 to over 1,000 a year. Speaker Brownlee is saying the same thing here. But what troubles both men most is not personal risk — it’s what the threat to accessibility does to democracy. The intimate, open character of New Zealand politics, where MPs run caravan stops and constituent clinics without security details, is one of its finest features. Lose that, and something irreplaceable goes with it. * The gang visit fallout, Kerrin Leoni and the one rule you must never break — Chris Hipkins announced the resignation of the Labour candidate for Tāmaki Makaurau after she was photographed at the Mongrel Mob pad and — more damagingly — gave inconsistent accounts of her involvement, including on a televised debate. Phil is unequivocal: Hipkins had no alternative. Chris applies the same historical verdict: John Key’s standing instruction to his cabinet was tell me everything, not a sanitised version, because he could only help you if he knew the full story. She didn’t. * The Parliamentary Budget Office, a Future Generations Commissioner and $71 billion of moonbeams — The most substantive policy discussion of the episode. The Greens have costed New Zealand First’s promises at $71 billion — and that’s before Ron Mark’s pledge to take defence to 3% of GDP. There is still no New Zealand First fiscal plan. On the Parliamentary Budget Office, both men have been calling for it all season and are genuinely heartened: Labour, the Greens and TOP have all endorsed it, National softly, and the Greens’ costing of New Zealand First’s promises is the best possible advertisement for why it matters. On TOP’s Future Generations Commissioner, Chris calls it a brilliant, practical mechanism for breaking the five-minute political horizon — especially on AI, infrastructure and climate. Phil is cautiously supportive but wants evidence it won’t become another parking lot for hard problems. Along the way: three hundred thousand eligible voters who never enrolled and Luxon saying he’s comfortable with that and a promise that next week’s episode will cover the US midterm predictions, the key electoral battlegrounds, and — depending on timing — possibly an election night special. Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too. 📋 Early voting is open now. Election day is 7 November. Make sure everyone you know has voted.
Hosted by Phil Goff and Chris Finlayson, Cross Party Lines reaches its 50th episode — just over a year in, and with an audience that has grown beyond either man expected. They mark the occasion the way they mark everything: with a tribute, a historical detour, and absolutely no let-up on the campaign. Three weeks out from election day, there’s too much to get through. Thanks to Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi owned Insurance Brokerage. In this episode: * Gang pads, political missteps and the skeleton in everyone’s closet — The Greens and Te Pāti Māori’s visit to a Mongrel Mob pad — photographed against gang patches — draws Phil’s bluntest assessment of the campaign: stupid, naive, and politically self-destructive in precisely the seats the Greens need to hold. But Phil won’t leave the history untouched. Muldoon funded millions into gang work schemes. Chris’s concern is different but equally sharp: in a campaign where repetition and message discipline are everything, going off-script to cozy up to organised crime in the final weeks is an act of self-indulgence that could cost the Greens two or three points — and potentially their Wellington North seat. * Peters unilateral at the UN, the right to silence and a missing fiscal plan — New Zealand voted against a World Health Organization resolution on pandemic preparedness — alongside the United States, Israel and one other country, against 154 nations. Phil is unambiguous: this was Peters playing to his anti-vax base using New Zealand’s international reputation as a chip. Chris reports that National ministers wanted to vote for the resolution. Both ask the same question: did it go to cabinet? If so, Luxon owns it. If not, the coalition is more out of control than anyone has acknowledged. * Māori seats, the TOP threshold and the defining moment that hasn’t happened yet — Phil gives his most detailed read of the Māori electorates: Labour likely to pick up three seats, Ikaroa-Rāwhiti safe with Cushla Tangaere-Manuel, Te Tai Tonga a genuine contest, Te Tai Tokerau close but leaning Labour’s way. Chris keeps a close eye on Te Tai Hauauru — formerly Tariana’s stronghold, now genuinely split — and notes Willie Jackson’s bold declaration at Adrian Rurawhe’s tangihanga that it was now Labour’s marae earned him a look that suggested otherwise. Then there’s the defining moment question: could the gang visit be this campaign’s Metiria Turei? Could there be a Peter Dunne common-sense moment that shifts 15% of undecideds overnight? Both men think the race is not yet settled, and Gerald Ford’s Poland moment — and Biden’s 2024 implosion — are offered as reminders of how fast things can move. Along the way: the 50th episode milestone and why people keep stopping Chris at airports to say they appreciate civilised disagreement; Marilyn Waring ringing to correct the OIA history and give proper credit to Mike Minogue; a tribute to Geoff Thompson, former member for Horowhenua, who passed away this week. Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too. 📋 Election day is 7 November. Make sure you’re enrolled — and make sure everyone you know is too.
Hosted by Phil Goff and Chris Finlayson, Cross Party Lines battles on with Phil broadcasting through a lurgy picked up on the flight home from Australia — it’s an episode that moves from the campaign’s most mean-spirited policies to OIA reform, a hilariously hapless New Zealand First list, and the American midterms closing in on the Republicans like a freight train. All thanks to Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi-Owned Insurance Brokerage. Find out more at frankrisk.co.nz. In this episode: * Foreign aid cuts, drug testing and the return of compassionate conservatism — in theory — National and ACT’s decision to slash overseas aid draws Phil’s sharpest moral language of the season: we spend 0.24% of GDP on foreign aid, the international goal is 0.7%, and the cuts will fall on humanitarian crisis relief — Gaza, Ukraine, the World Food Programme, UNHCR. Chris is equally unimpressed — and notes the whole exercise is likely to be reversed anyway, given Peters has already come out against it. On drug testing for beneficiaries, both men defer to Jonathan Coleman who wrote a lengthy Herald piece calling the policy wrong, unprincipled and ineffective. * Air New Zealand, OIA reform and the right of the citizen to know — Chris’s flight from Gisborne was cancelled, supposedly due to weather — suffice to say he wanted to know more about Labour’s consumer policy package, which mandates automatic refunds for cancelled or significantly delayed flights, levels the playing field for smaller regional carriers, and takes aim at airport monopoly pricing. On OIA reform, Chris is in full historical mode: the Official Information Act was a complete philosophical switch from the Official Secrets Act — from withholding as default to availability as default, built on the work of Ken Keith, Alan Danks and Jim McLay. What is happening now, across multiple governments but accelerating under this one, is a quiet reversal of that principle. * New Zealand First’s list, the midterms and Trump renames the ocean — Chris turns to the New Zealand First list and cannot contain himself: Ron Mark at number 16, behind Hārete Hipango and Alfred Ngaro. He applies the Hanoverian principle — anyone who looks like a potential successor gets marked down — and notes Peters describing the list as representing rejuvenation after 50 years of his own continuous political presence. Stuart Nash and Shane Jones are in there. Michael Laws features, and Chris declines to comment further on defamation grounds. On the American midterms, both men identify their must-watch races: South Carolina — a seat Democrats haven’t held since the 1990s, now within a point or two — and Kansas, which hasn’t returned a Democratic senator since 1938, and is now genuinely in play. If both flip, Democrats could reach 55 or 56 Senate seats. Along the way: Phil’s voice threatening to become a high-pitched squeal when Trump comes up; Chris being recognised at Gisborne Airport and told he looks better in person than on screen; a man on the airport bus praising Phil’s tenure as Foreign Affairs Minister; and the promise of a full American election deep-dive next week, Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too. 📋 Election day is 7 November. Make sure you’re enrolled.
Hosted by Phil Goff and Chris Finlayson, Cross Party Lines opens with a tribute to former Speaker Adrian Rurawhe — a man of great humility, dignity and genuine cross-party respect — before turning to the final sprint of the election campaign: empty promises from every direction, billionaires gaming the electoral system, the minor parties’ kingmaker debate, and a Burnham bounce that might finally put Brexit on trial. All thanks to Frank Risk Management, the 100% Kiwi Owned Insurance Brokerage. In this episode: * The campaign’s hollow promises and the policies that actually matter — Chris reaches for Horace — the mountain labours and a ridiculous mouse is born — as his summary of the policy avalanche hitting voters in the final week. The BNZ nationalisation is a barefaced lie that will never happen. The Greens’ $2 train fare is potty. ACT’s Paris Agreement withdrawal would torpedo both the EU and UK free trade agreements and is equally dishonest — as Laura Clark, former British High Commissioner and now a climate advocate, pointed out bluntly on RNZ, New Zealand is already facing a complaint from a Dutch environmental group over its weakening of climate commitments. * Billionaires gaming the system and the Kingmaker debate’s tired chestnuts — The Mowbray family — New Zealand’s wealthiest — and Don Brash are publicly urging voters to give electorate votes to National but party votes to ACT, engineering a potential overhang that Phil connects directly to the German experience: the Germans had an identical MMP system, the same tactic was tried, and they were forced to change the law. Both Phil and Chris are unambiguous — this rots the system, undermines electoral credibility, and should be condemned. * Burnham’s Brexit courage and Farage on the ropes — Andy Burnham has said what no Labour leader has dared to since 2016: Brexit was born in a lie, largely propagated by Boris Johnson, it has not increased wealth, it has devastated it, and it is time for a new arrangement with Europe. Chris is delighted. Phil notes the Burnham bounce is real — Labour up to 30% in some polls, reform down to 23-25%, the Conservatives in the high teens — is exactly what real political leadership looks like, and what New Zealand has been missing. Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too. 📋 Election day is 7 November. Make sure you’re enrolled and make sure everyone you know is too.
Hosted by Phil Goff and Chris Finlayson, Cross Party Lines returns to dissect party launches, Nicky Hager’s latest book, the US midterms and the Xi-Trump summit that produced two pandas and precisely nothing else. Proudly supported by our Foundational Partner Frank Risk Management - the 100% Kiwi owned insurance brokerage. In this episode: * Party launches: Labour’s energy versus National’s empty seats — Phil went to one launch and won’t make you guess which one. Audrey Young’s verdict — Labour had it all over National for sheer impact, with new policy, a new attitude and a better speech — saves Phil from being dismissed as a party hack, though he notes Hipkins’ language at the lectern raised eyebrows. Chris channels John Key’s campaign gospel: repeat, repeat, repeat, don’t deviate, don’t embellish. * Nicky Hager’s Dirty Works — useful journalism or a pop gun? — Phil delivers an even-handed assessment of Hager’s career: Hollow Men and Dirty Politics were game, set and match — documentary proof of collusion with the Exclusive Brethren and the weaponisation of the OIA and the SIS. Dirty Work, both agree, is not a smoking gun — but the documented links between the Taxpayers Union, tobacco industry funding, and the orchestrated amplification of anti-Māori sentiment are not nothing, and Chris expresses a fervent hope that Hager’s next book is about New Zealand First. * US midterms: Kansas wobbling, Texas flipping and Trump’s Faustian reckoning — Chris has been doing his homework and the picture is striking. Kansas — reliably Republican for a century — is in play. Texas, which Trump won by 13.6 points, has the Democrat ahead. Iowa farmers, hammered by tariffs and diesel costs, are reconsidering. Phil lays out the arithmetic: Democrats need four Senate seats to take the chamber; the House is almost certainly gone; and if both flip, Trump faces impeachment proceedings in his final two years while the courts continue finding his executive orders unconstitutional. Chris’s verdict on the moral of the story: if you make a Faustian deal with someone like Trump, 2026 is the year you’re held to account. Cross Party Lines exists to lift political literacy and create space for calm, good-faith political conversation. New episodes every Tuesday. If you value thoughtful debate, follow the podcast and share it with someone who might too. 📋 Election day is 7 November. Make sure you’re on the roll.