Retiring with a Mortgage: The New Normal?

Do you really need 10 properties to build wealth? Or has the property industry convinced investors that bigger portfolios automatically mean better outcomes? In this episode, Jordan de Jong, founder of Gameplans, joins Veronica and Chris to unpack the realities of property portfolio planning, borrowing capacity and the growing grey area between property strategy and financial advice. We explore why buying more properties can actually work against investors, how outdated strategies can send people down the wrong path, and why the quality of the asset may matter far more than the number of properties you own. Jordan also reveals what his data shows about portfolio sizes, why investors shouldn’t feel behind, and how much property you may actually need to achieve your goals. The conversation also tackles the uncomfortable issues facing the buyer’s agency industry: advisers operating outside their expertise, the use of modelling tools, SMSFs and trusts, commercial property, and whether large-scale buying can actually push prices higher in concentrated markets. If you’re building a property portfolio, working with a buyers agent, or questioning whether more property is really the answer, this episode challenges some of the industry’s most persistent assumptions. Episode Highlights 01:21 – Meet Jordan de Jong: The Story Behind Gameplans 04:09 – The Borrowing Capacity Trap Investors Miss 06:26 – Why Quality Matters More Than Property Count 09:06 – What Gameplans Actually Helps Investors Do 10:22 – Why Property Modelling Can Create False Confidence 23:21 – Can Buyers Agents Push Property Prices Higher? 27:36 – Why Property Alone Isn’t the Whole Financial Plan 29:12 – Why Investors Need a Team Around Their Property Strategy 30:38 – Why Financial Advisers Often Avoid Property 34:53 – The Risks of Pivoting Into Commercial Property 37:11 – What Investor Activity Is Really Doing Post-Budget 40:08 – The Property Portfolio Size Reality Check 46:00 – Overleveraging: When More Properties Become a Problem 49:05 – Jordan’s Own Property Investing Mistake 50:48 – Wrap Up + Listener Questions About the Guest Jordan de Jong is the founder of Gameplans, a portfolio planning software platform used by property professionals across Australia and New Zealand. His involvement in property investing began early, buying his first home at 18 and later building his own investment portfolio. After becoming a qualified property investment adviser, Jordan founded Gameplans during the 2020 lockdowns after becoming frustrated by the lack of practical, long-term planning available to property investors. The platform allows professionals and investors to model property portfolios, cash flow, borrowing capacity and long-term financial outcomes. In this episode, Jordan draws on his experience working with hundreds of property professionals to examine how investors approach portfolio building, where modelling can create false confidence, and the challenges of keeping property advice within appropriate boundaries. He also shares Gameplans' data on portfolio sizes and explains why he believes investors should focus less on the number of properties they own and more on whether their assets actually help them achieve their goals. Connect with Jordan LinkedIn | Jordan de Jong Instagram | Jordan de Jong Linktree | Jordan de Jong

For years, Steve Palise told people not to buy the home they live in. Then he bought a $6 million home on Sydney’s Northern Beaches himself. So what changed? In this episode, Steve joins Veronica and Chris to explain the shift from a purely financial decision to one shaped by family, lifestyle, security and the freedom that comes with success. The conversation then turns to the growing rush into commercial property. With investor interest surging, Steve explains why commercial property is fundamentally more complicated than residential, from lease reviews and tenant risk to vacancy studies, planning, land content and local market dynamics. We unpack why a high yield doesn't necessarily mean a good investment, why scarcity and owner-occupier demand matter, and how different commercial assets can perform very differently depending on their location, use and tenant base. Episode Highlights 03:12 — Steve Palise Changed His Mind About Buying a Home 07:42 — The Opportunity Cost of Owning Your Home 12:43 — Why Investors Are Rushing Into Commercial Property 17:24 — Too Many Buyers, Not Enough Commercial Property 22:35 — The Commercial Property Mistakes Investors Miss 27:41 — Why Land and Scarcity Matter in Commercial Property 32:38 — What’s the Best Price Point for Commercial Property? 34:06 — When Commercial Property Risk Really Comes From 37:47 — The Vacancy Lessons Steve Learned the Hard Way 42:38 — The Commercial Buyers Agent Boom Has a Catch 49:28 — Should You Buy a Home Before Building a Portfolio? About the Guest Steve Palise is a commercial buyers agent and property investor who has spent almost two decades investing in property, beginning with a residential portfolio before shifting into commercial property. He spent six years working as a buyers agent with Rethink Investing before establishing his own business. Steve now leads a commercial property acquisition team with six acquisition staff across the capital cities, alongside a due diligence team that includes an experienced commercial property manager and three qualified commercial valuers. His approach focuses heavily on tenant quality, vacancy rates, location, land component and the long-term fundamentals of commercial assets. Having experienced the transition from residential investing to commercial property firsthand — and more recently changing his own view on home ownership — Steve brings a practical perspective on both the financial and personal decisions behind property investment. Connect with Steve Steve Palise - Palise property | LinkedIn LinkedIn | Palise Property

The government has framed its proposed capital gains tax changes as a way to tackle intergenerational unfairness. But what happens when the same reforms make it harder for younger Australians to build wealth, save a deposit, invest in businesses and diversify beyond property? Chris Brycki, founder and CEO of Stockspot, joins Veronica and Chris to unpack what the Treasury modelling may be missing. With Stockspot clients collectively withdrawing $37 million last year to buy property, he explains how diversified ETFs have become a deposit-building strategy — and why the new tax treatment could make that pathway less attractive. We also examine the hidden problem of taxing inflation-adjusted gains while failing to provide the same treatment for real losses, the potential impact on small-cap companies and startups, and why the changes could encourage businesses to pay out more dividends rather than reinvest in growth and innovation. From first-home buyers and entrepreneurs to downsizers and long-term investors, this conversation explores the behavioural consequences of tax policy — and whether a reform designed to improve affordability could ultimately distort investment decisions in ways the government did not intend. Episode Highlights 01:40 – Chris Brycki on the CGT Changes 05:16 – Should You Invest Your House Deposit? 07:53 – Where the Budget Got CGT Reform Wrong 10:14 – The CGT Trap: Gains Indexed, Losses Aren’t 15:08 – Why the New CGT Rules Could Crush Startups 21:25 – Should Capital Gains Be Taxed Like Income? 27:49 – Will CGT Changes Push Companies to Pay Dividends? 33:06 – How the New CGT Rules Affect ETFs 37:19 – When Tax Starts Driving Investment Decisions 43:08 – Could CGT Changes Push Money Back Into Property? 48:52 – Is Negative Gearing Really Only for the Wealthy? 51:44 – Why 1 July Valuations Could Cost You Thousands 55:06 – Could CGT Changes Discourage Downsizing? 58:18 – The Bigger Economic Consequences of CGT Reform About the Guest Chris Brycki is the founder and CEO of Stockspot, described as Australia’s first and largest digital investment adviser. Stockspot manages more than $1.5 billion for around 21,000 clients, many of whom are young professionals and families investing through diversified ETFs for goals including buying a home. Chris brings a direct view of how Australians are actually using investment markets to build wealth. He has been particularly vocal about the proposed CGT changes and their potential impact on investors, entrepreneurs, housing affordability and Australia’s economy. In this episode, he draws on his experience working with investors to challenge assumptions behind the proposed reforms, including Treasury’s modelling of share-market returns, the treatment of investment losses, and the incentives the new system could create for companies, investors and aspiring homeowners. Connect with Chris LinkedIn | Chris Brycki Website | Stockspot LinkedIn | Stockspot X | Stockspot Facebook | Stockspot Instagram | Stockspot

Australia knows it needs to build more homes. But if construction is already operating close to capacity, where will the extra housing actually come from? HIA senior economist Tom Devitt joins Veronica and Chris to unpack the constraints holding the industry back and why simply calling for more supply misses the complexity of getting homes built. The conversation covers skilled labour shortages, planning and approvals, land and infrastructure costs, construction productivity, prefab housing and the shift towards medium-density development. Tom also explains why Sydney and Melbourne have struggled to recover, while WA, Queensland and South Australia have performed more strongly. They also examine the fallout from changes to negative gearing and SMSF borrowing, including the risk that relatively small numbers of affected apartment sales could have a much larger impact on project financing. And with rental vacancy rates around 1%, Tom challenges the idea that investors are the problem, arguing that Australia needs more rental accommodation, not less. From stamp duty and development feasibility to the difference between the real estate market and the underlying housing market, this conversation gets into the structural issues that will determine whether Australia can actually close its housing supply gap. Episode Highlights 01:39 – Meet HIA Economist Tom Devitt 02:14 – Why Australia Still Can’t Build Enough Homes 04:13 – The Skilled Trades Shortage Holding Housing Back 07:01 – Why Construction Workers Are Being Pulled Elsewhere 10:35 – Prefab Won’t Solve the Housing Shortage Alone 13:08 – How the SMSF Ban Could Sink Entire Projects 17:03 – The Housing Finance Fallout From the SMSF Ban 19:36 – Are Buyers Losing Confidence in New Housing? 22:44 – Why Sydney and Melbourne Are Falling Behind 25:32 – Are We Really Measuring Construction Productivity? 30:46 – Why Builders Are Going Under Despite Strong Demand 34:17 – Why Some New Housing Simply Doesn’t Stack Up 36:59 – Why Medium-Density Housing Could Be the Sweet Spot 39:58 – The Housing Fundamentals That Eventually Win 41:44 – The Rental Crisis Needs More Investors, Not Fewer About the Guest Tom Devitt is a senior economist at the Housing Industry Association (HIA), where he works on the economic conditions shaping Australia’s residential construction industry. His work includes analysing housing construction forecasts, industry capacity, labour shortages, planning constraints and the impact of government policy on new housing. Tom brings an industry-focused economic perspective to the housing supply debate, looking beyond headline targets to examine what actually determines whether a home gets built. In this episode, he discusses construction capacity, skilled trades shortages, development feasibility, planning reform, rental supply and the effects of recent policy changes affecting property investment and housing finance. Connect with Tom LinkedIn | Tom Devitt LinkedIn | HIA

The latest PIPA Annual Investor Survey reveals a significant shift in investor sentiment, with more investors considering selling amid changing tax settings, rising holding costs, interest rates and concerns about property values. Chris Bates and buyer’s agent Cate Bakos unpack what the survey reveals about investor behaviour and why grandfathering existing tax arrangements may not be enough to keep investors in the market. They explore what happens when established rental properties are sold to owner-occupiers, and why replacing that stock with new investment properties isn’t as straightforward as policymakers might assume. The conversation also examines rentvesting, the growing appeal of higher-yielding property, the risks of investors pivoting into commercial property without sufficient expertise, and whether build-to-rent can realistically address the gaps in Australia’s rental supply. With investor behaviour changing and rental demand remaining strong, Chris and Cate question whether housing policy is accounting for the full consequences of pushing private investors out of the market. Episode Highlights 01:28 – PIPA Survey: The Investor Shift Nobody Can Ignore 04:20 – Why Investors Are Selling Despite Being Grandfathered 08:38 – Why Investors Aren’t Switching to New Builds 13:00 – Why Long-Term Investors Are Reconsidering Property 18:53 – Where Investors Are Selling and Why 20:52 – Who Pays When Investors Leave the Market? 22:32 – Why Qualified Property Advice Matters More Than Ever 27:09 – Are Property Falls as Bad as the Headlines Suggest? 30:58 – The Borrowing Capacity Squeeze on Investors 35:12 – Why Build-to-Rent Won’t Solve the Rental Shortage 38:07 – Chasing Yield: The Risk of Pivoting to Commercial 42:19 – PIPA’s Push for Better Investor Advice and Standards 44:41 – Outro: Submit Your Questions About the Guest Cate Bakos is a former President of the Real Estate Buyers Agents Association of Australia (REBAA) and is closely involved with the Property Investment Professionals of Australia (PIPA), where she advocates for investor education, consumer awareness and qualified property investment advice. She is also the Owner and Buyer’s Agent at Cate Bakos Property, bringing extensive experience working directly with property buyers and investors across the Australian market. Her frontline perspective gives her a practical understanding of how investors respond to changing market conditions, tax settings and property values. In this episode, Cate draws on that experience to unpack the latest PIPA Investor Survey, including why investors are selling, what happens to established rental stock when they exit, and why some investors are looking towards higher-yielding residential and commercial property. She also discusses the importance of qualified advice as investors navigate an increasingly complex property environment. Connect with Cate Website | Cate Bakos Property Phone - 03 7000 6026 Mobile - 0422 638 362 Email - [email protected] Socials: LinkedIn | Catherine Bakos Instagram | Cate Bakos Facebook | Cate Bakos