Calm Can Feel Dangerous After Trauma

What if the behaviors we label as “maladaptive” are actually brilliant strategies for survival? And what if the most powerful thing a therapist can offer isn't a technique, but the experience of being genuinely cared for? In this thought-provoking episode of In Conversation with Janina Fisher, Janina sits down with trauma therapist, somatics practitioner, researcher, and activist Mariah Rooney to explore the intersection of trauma, healing, justice, and the transformative power of human connection. Together, Janina and Mariah challenge some of the mental health field's most deeply held assumptions—from the limitations of evidence-based treatments and rigid therapeutic protocols to the ways diagnostic labels can pathologize the very adaptations that helped people survive. Drawing on their clinical experiences, they explore why genuine warmth, attunement, and even delight in a client can be profoundly healing, and why progress isn't always something that can be measured on a checklist. Their conversation also moves beyond the therapy room, examining how systemic injustice, institutional practices, and unsafe environments shape trauma responses. They question what it really means to be regulated when hypervigilance may be necessary for survival, and why therapists must understand the realities clients return to after each session. This episode is a compelling invitation to rethink trauma treatment, not simply as a process of changing behaviors or reducing symptoms, but as an opportunity to honor survival, restore connection, and create conditions for healing both individually and collectively. Key Takeaways: Survival strategies aren't necessarily symptoms of dysfunction The therapeutic relationship is more than a vehicle for treatment Evidence-based doesn't always mean effective for everyone Healing doesn't always look like measurable progress Even positive change can feel threatening Trauma treatment cannot be separated from social context Healing must extend beyond the therapy room

What if, instead of trying to silence our inner critic, push away painful feelings, or overcome distress, we simply became curious about what those experiences are trying to tell us? In this special episode of In Conversation with Janina Fisher, Janina offers something a little different—a guided meditation inviting listeners to slow down, turn inward, and gently explore the many parts of themselves. Drawing on her compassionate, parts-based approach to trauma healing, Janina guides us in noticing our thoughts, emotions, and bodily sensations as communications from different parts of ourselves. As we begin to recognize how these parts interact—how a critical thought might trigger shame, or how feelings of hopelessness might awaken another part that wants to fight back—we can start to understand our internal experiences with greater curiosity and less judgment. Rather than trying to change or silence these parts, Janina invites us to make room for them, recognizing that even our most distressed or critical parts have stories to tell and deserve to be heard. This meditation is a small gift from Janina to her listeners, an opportunity to pause, reconnect with yourself, and practice meeting all your parts with kindness and compassion. We hope you'll return to it whenever you need a moment of understanding, connection, or gentle self-reflection.

What happens when talking about our pain keeps us circling the same story instead of helping us move through it? In this engaging episode of In Conversation with Janina Fisher, Janina sits down with clinical psychologist and psychodrama expert Dr. Tian Dayton to explore the power of experiential therapy—and why sometimes healing requires more than talking about what happened. Tian introduces some of psychodrama’s most powerful techniques, including role reversal, doubling, and the empty chair, and explains how they can help clients move from talking about a relationship or experience to engaging with it in the present moment. By stepping into another perspective, clients may discover feelings, insights, and possibilities that weren’t accessible through the familiar story alone. Janina and Tian explore the difference between repeatedly retelling painful experiences and revisiting them within a safe, supported therapeutic environment. Rather than remaining trapped in the role we have always occupied, experiential work can interrupt old narratives, bring the body into therapy, and allow emotions such as grief or anger to be felt and move through us. Their conversation also explores the healing potential of groups, co-regulation, grief work, and the simple but powerful experience of encountering another person rather than remaining alone with our internal world. Tian shares how psychodrama and sociometry can create connection through shared experience, allowing group members to become therapeutic resources for one another. Ultimately, Janina and Tian arrive at something larger than any one therapeutic method: healing is not a destination. We don’t finish our healing once and for all, and we don’t need to wait until some future moment to finally be “there.” Growth happens through experience, relationship, practice, and learning to return again and again to the present moment. Key Takeaways: Telling the story isn’t always the same as healing from it Psychodrama helps clients move from talking about an experience to engaging with it Role reversal can open perspectives that talking alone may not reach The body and emotions need a place in therapy Groups can become powerful sources of connection and co-regulation Experiential work can be especially powerful for grief and unresolved relationships Healing isn’t something we finish—it’s an ongoing process Sometimes the most powerful therapeutic interventions are also the simplest About Tian Dayton Dr. Tian Dayton is a clinical psychologist, internationally recognized expert in psychodrama, trauma, addiction, and Adult Children of Alcoholics, and the author of numerous books on trauma, recovery, relationships, and experiential therapy. A board-certified trainer in psychodrama, Tian has spent decades bringing psychodrama, sociometry, and experiential approaches into trauma and addiction treatment. She taught psychodrama at New York University for eight years and has trained generations of clinicians in methods that engage not only the thinking mind, but the body, emotions, relationships, and lived experience. Her work includes the development of Relational Trauma Repair (RTR), an experiential model integrating psychodrama and sociometry with contemporary understandings of trauma and relational healing. Tian’s Website: https://www.tiandayton.com/ Books by Tian Dayton: Growing up with Addiction: How Adult Children of Addicts Can Heal Family Trauma, C-PTSD, and Codependency https://www.amazon.com/dp/1785046497?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback# Other books can be viewed at author’s website: https://relationaltraumarepair.com/endorsements/ The Living Stage: A Step-by-Step Guide to Psychodrama, Sociometry and Experiential Group Therapy Sociometrics: Embodied, Experiential Processes for Healing Trauma and Addiction The ACoA Trauma Syndrome Emotional Sobriety Trauma and Addiction The Soulful Journey of Recovery Treating Adult Children of Relational Trauma

What if the relationships we long for most are also the ones that activate our deepest protective patterns? In this warm and insightful episode of In Conversation with Janina Fisher, Janina sits down with attachment expert and longtime Somatic Experiencing trainer Diane Poole Heller to explore how our earliest relationships shape the way we connect, protect ourselves, and respond to intimacy throughout our lives. Together, they discuss why healing trauma doesn’t automatically heal attachment wounds—and why understanding attachment intellectually is very different from changing the patterns held in the body. Diane explains how early experiences can show up as the impulse to withdraw, cling, distrust, or even push away the very love and connection we desperately want. Most importantly, their conversation offers a hopeful message: secure attachment can be learned. Through awareness, co-regulation, corrective experiences, and practice, we can gradually build a greater capacity for intimacy, repair, trust, and receiving care. Drawing from clinical work as well as her own experience learning to receive love rather than deflect it, Diane brings attachment theory out of the abstract and into the lived, embodied moments where relationships actually happen. As she and Janina explore, healing isn't simply about understanding our patterns—it's about practicing something different until our nervous system begins to believe it too. Attachment patterns aren’t fixed overnight

What happens when the person we most want to feel safe with is also the person who triggers our deepest wounds? In this insightful episode of In Conversation with Janina Fisher, Janina sits down with pioneering couples therapist Dr. Ellyn Bader to explore why intimate relationships can so easily activate old wounds—and why those same relationships can also become powerful opportunities for growth. Together, they unpack how childhood trauma, fear of intimacy, and unresolved disappointments can keep couples trapped in the same conflicts, even when both partners desperately want connection. Ellyn shares how her Developmental Model of Couples Therapy helps partners move beyond blame, understand what each person brings to the relationship, and learn to stay connected without abandoning themselves. Janina and Ellyn also explore what therapists need to understand about working with couples, why individual therapists should be careful about taking sides, and how collaboration between couples and trauma therapists can open new pathways toward healing. This episode offers a compassionate and nuanced look at relationships not simply as places where our wounds are activated, but as places where growth, differentiation, and healing can become possible. Trauma can make intimacy feel threatening. People may deeply desire closeness while simultaneously becoming fearful or dysregulated when it occurs.