Ep 202. The spy who duped me - Charles Cumming reveals all

As right-wing populist and far-right parties see a major rise across Europe, Nigel Farage is one of the most consequential politicians of our time. He may be the UK’s next Prime Minister. Investigative journalist, and best-selling author, John Sweeney is a thorn in Nigel Farage’s side. He is the Reform UK correspondent of the Nerve. He has covered wars, revolutions and disorder in a hundred countries, including going undercover in Chechnya, North Korea and Zimbabwe. He’s written 17 books including the Sunday Times bestseller ‘Killer in the Kremlin’ about Vladimir Putin. In this lively interview, which includes explicit language, about his new, explosive book ‘The Real Nigel Farage’ Sweeney does not hold back, citing well-sourced allegations, suggesting the charismatic and popular Reform UK leader is cruel, chaotic and akin to a leader of a cult. It's a packed hour full of startling allegations, such as Farage not liking working class people and academics, his sympathies towards Vladimir Putin and his narcissistic tendencies. Nigel Farage, as Sweeney himself makes clear throughout the interview, denies any wrongdoing and has said of Sweeney that he has caused him more misery than anyone else in 25 years of politics. Sweeney says Farage has not yet sued about any of the allegations in his book. Also in this interview, Sweeney reveals what really happened that caused his infamous shouting match against Scientology spokesman Tommy Davis, which has been seen by millions of people around the world. Sweeney also tells Out of Order with Mark Lobel why he thinks child serial killer Lucy Letby is innocent. Sweeney has reported on women wrongly jailed for murder before and revealed flaws in the case against Sally Clarke. Her verdict was subsequently overturned in 2003. LINKS: Buy John’s book, ‘The Real Nigel Farage’ here: https://amzn.eu/d/07m4laz3 Crowdfunders for Ukraine: https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/qr/XWJOKwDn?utm_campaign=sharemodal&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=shortlink https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/qr/VlDvrKKn?utm_campaign=sharemodal&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=shortlink John’s podcast on Lucy Letby https://open.spotify.com/show/0rwlMXKNQK0a7ug2p4oX1D John Sweeney losing his temper – Panorama, BBC One https://youtu.be/mjlo4u_8g60?is=15o0HQfnzdU5gC2f Contact Mark Lobel here: https://www.mark-lobel.com/getintouch HOST: Mark Lobel @marklobeltv GUEST: John Sweeney @johnsweeneyroar PRODUCER: George McDonagh

From tear gassing student protestors in France to Britain’s chaotic party conferences with their controversial motions, Jason and Jane ask whether Western democracies can still deliver anything positive for the next generation. They take on Labour’s spending promises, the Tory’s bizzarre tax cut pledges, the Greens’ Zionism is Racism controversy and the growing power of bond markets over elected governments. Then: are AI and its creators taking over? Jane reports from the UN General Assembly on the push for global AI rules. After the break, we turn to the US midterms and Iranian-linked security threats in Britain. Plus, Jason finally learns what “squeaky bum time” means. And apparently it is not only about clearing the midpoint. Then in the MEGA ORDERERS BONUS just for our subscribers: Can Trump Tariff His Way to a Bolsonaro Victory? Brazil’s election, the Bolsonaro comeback, Lula’s failures, crime, evangelical politics and whether economic pressure is becoming a new form of foreign election interference. Join the Mega Orderers Club: https://disordershow.com/club And in the ORDERING THE DISORDER: Democracies need room to invest in the next generation and international cooperation to ensure AI serves people rather than addiction, polarisation and dominance. Producer: George McDonagh Subscribe to our Substack - https://natoandtheged.substack.com/ Disorder on YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow SHOWNOTES LINKS Have the Greens just voted for a de facto ban on Jews? https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-news-agents/id1640878689?i=1000793267697 More on this https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/oct/02/green-party-anti-zionism-motion-attempt-tell-jews-how-to-think

Jason is joined by former Kentucky congressional candidate Erin Petrie, board member of Bourbon Women and active DAR member, to dissect the ideological clash at the heart of the American left. They discuss whether progressive slogans like "abolish ICE" drive moderate voters into Trumpism, how Citizens United and billionaire donors have created a pay-to-play system and why politicians in Washington fail to address the affordability crisis in rural America. MEGA ORDERERS BONUS: What do Erin’s experiences in post-revolutionary Libya reveal about the collapse of civic trust back home? Then, as Jason and Erin Order the Disorder, they debate whether centrist pragmatic realism or progressive dreaming is the path forward. They explore critical Senate and House races to watch in North Carolina and Texas, whether Democrats should pack the Supreme Court to counter executive overreach, and how international trade and tariffs could hit MAGA voters where it hurts. Plus: can the rule of law still win in Trump’s America, or must centrist Democrats go lower to actually restore order?

What exactly is “War Putinism” — and how long can it survive? Jason is joined by Russia expert Mark Galeotti, host of In Moscow’s Shadows, to get inside the increasingly militarised, kleptocratic system Putin has built. They discuss Russia’s recent Duma elections, whether the war economy is devouring Russia’s future, how corruption changes when elites stop believing the system will last forever, and why Russia is so effective at exploiting divisions in Western societies. Then they Order the Disorder: Jason and Mark disagree agreeably over whether Europe needs greater unity or much bolder action against Russia — before exploring financial enforcement, sanctions, Russian money flows and what the West could actually do to constrain Putin’s capacity to disorder the international system. And, naturally, there are bears. Lots of rampaging Russian bears. MEGA ORDERERS BONUS: Can Ukraine actually win? Responding to a listener challenge, Jason and Mark debate what Russian defeat could realistically mean, whether any settlement merely gives Putin time to regroup, and what security guarantees Ukraine would actually need. Plus: even more on Russia’s increasingly disorderly bears. Join the Mega Orderers Club for the full bonus: https://disordershow.com/club Producer: George McDonagh Subscribe to Ordering the Disorder: https://natoandtheged.substack.com/ Disorder on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DisorderShow SHOWNOTES LINKS Mark Galeotti’s In Moscow’s Shadows: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/in-moscows-shadows/id1510124746 In Moscow’s Shadows 264: Russia’s Bear(s) On The March: https://podcasts.apple.com/nl/podcast/in-moscows-shadows-264-russias-bear-s-on-the-march/id1510124746?i=1000791844169 Our recent episode with Hanna Notte — Can Putin Outlast the West (by Disordering it)?: https://podfollow.com/disorder/episode/35b8c221b3fca72fafb5a4b0fee7924f22d97423/view Disorder Ep. 196 with Jamison Firestone — Rule of Lies: The Origin Story of Putin’s Russia: https://podcasts.apple.com/id/podcast/ep-196-rule-of-lies-the-origin-story-of/id1706818264?i=1000777642161 Our previous episode with Sir Bill Browder: https://pod.link/1706818264/episode/a36160dede2b990a59c34c3c4e8eeece Join the Mega Orderers Club: https://disordershow.com/club

This is a story about an Israeli and a Palestinian who refuse to give up. Instead, they teach us that “Peace is an action”. Rejecting revenge and rage, Aziz offers an image that stays with us: anger is like nuclear power. It can destroy, or it can light a path. This is a conversation about what it takes to choose the latter, and what the rest of us might do next. Maoz Inon's parents were killed in the Hamas attacks of 7 October 2023. Aziz Abu Sarah's brother was killed by injuries from torture he suffered in Israeli custody. They have every reason to know what this conflict costs. Together, they insist that its future can still be peace. In this episode of Out of Order, Mark Lobel, a British Jew and journalist, speaks with the Israeli and Palestinian co-authors of The Future Is Peace, alongside his childhood friend Rida Saïd, a British Muslim, entrepreneur and advisor in the Middle East, dedicated to peace and dialogue in the region. Their conversation moves from grief and anger to the hard work of building a movement: protecting Palestinian farmers during the olive harvest, teaching young women in the West Bank, creating a place where Israelis and Palestinians can encounter each other’s stories, and pressing people with power to act. The peace activists also share their thoughts on: Ed Sheeran, Macklemore, Ed Miliband, the UK government’s sanctions against West Bank settlements, the upcoming Israeli and Palestinian elections and Aziz’s assertion that just three and a half percent of a society can change the social and political structure of a country. Mark and Rida ask the questions that test that vision. Why spend so much time appealing to audiences abroad? What should happen when language meant to demand freedom makes someone else afraid? And, if the politicians will not lead, who will? Guests: Maoz Inon, Aziz Abu Sarah, Rida Saïd Producer: George McDonagh Join the Mega Orderers Club for ad free listening, early release episodes and more: https://disordershow.com/club Show Note Links: Contact Maoz and Aziz’s non-profit organisation here: https://www.iinteract.org/ Buy Maoz and Aziz’s book here: The Future Is Peace, a New York Times bestseller https://www.amazon.co.uk/Future-Peace-Aziz-Abu-Sarah/dp/1837264074/ref=asc_df_1837264074?mcid=cac2792703583071a5d48985f377d155&th=1&psc=1&tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=781185311404&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=700057887293780533&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9045954&hvtargid=pla-2449018475226&psc=1&hvocijid=700057887293780533-1837264074-&hvexpln=0&gad_source=1 Read ‘A Law Catching Up with a Truth We Have Always Known’ by Rida Said: https://www.arabnews.com/opinion/a-law-finally-catching-up-with-a-truth-we-have-always-known-3001235 Watch Maoz and Aziz’s TED Talk, April 2024: https://www.ted.com/talks/aziz_abu_sarah_and_maoz_inon_a_palestinian_and_an_israeli_face_to_face Subscribe to Out of Order on Substack here: https://substack.com/@marklobeltv Follow Out of Order on Instagram here: https://www.instagram.com/outofordermarklobel/?hl=en-gb Follow Out of Order on Youtube here: https://www.youtube.com/@OutofOrderwithMarkLobel Get in touch with Mark here: https://www.mark-lobel.com/ Maoz and Aziz addressing the United Nations, 28th September 2026: https://webtv.un.org/en/asset/k1i/k1idc71j2y