Show Notes
Phil Demers joins me outside the gates of Marineland for this episode- a return to a conversation we began seven years ago at the Fox Theatre. Back then, we were fighting to pass Bill S-203 to end whale captivity in Canada. The law passed in 2019. Now, the fight is to save the remaining 30 beluga whales and 500 other animals who remain trapped inside as the park has ceased to exist. At one point, recently, Marineland even threatened to euthanize the whales if governments didn’t provide emergency financial support. Phil “The Walrus Whisperer” Demers was a trainer at Marineland turned whistleblower. He spent over a decade fighting Marineland in court after leaving his job there in 2012. After 13 years of legal battles and public advocacy, Marineland is finally on its last legs. But the fight to save the remaining animals isn’t over. We discussed what happens next, short-term and long-term solutions, and why governments should lead on this instead of playing only a reactive role. Chapters: 0:00 Standing Outside Marineland 6:21 Why China Might Actually Be Better 10:04 The Sanctuary Myth & Rescue Reality 14:08 30 Dead Whales 18:13 500 Forgotten Animals 19:30 13 Years of Legal Hell 24:37 Conclusion: The Divorce Analogy Read further: The Walrus and the Whistleblower - Documentary (CBC Gem) https://www.cbc.ca/documentarychannel/docs/the-walrus-and-the-whistleblower 7 years ago with Phil: Transcript: [00:00:00] Nate Erskine-Smith: All right, well, welcome to Uncommons. It’s an interesting episode because I’m joined by Phil Demers, who actually joined me at the Fox Theater many years ago, four years ago before we started the podcast actually. And it was just a, a local town hall event. We showed Blackfish. Right. And you were there to talk about your experience as a whistleblower at this horrible place behind us. [00:00:19] Uh, it is interesting how far we’ve come, but also that the issue is so acute still. Uh, at the time we were talking about a bill that had to be passed. To end this kind of production and make sure we were protecting institutions in captivity. And you were adamant we had to get this bill passed. Hmm. Well we got the bill passed. [00:00:37] Yeah. And yet we’ve got marineland, uh, beside us now, and it was grandfathered through in a way. And now we’ve got 30 beluga whales. We’ve got 500 other animals that are, that are in here. Mm-hmm. And all of which, all, all of whom need to be saved in, in, in one way or another. And, uh, it didn’t [00:01:00] have to come to this, really did it. [00:01:02] Phil Demers: Well, we’ve, what, what has glossed over in much of, of your story is we’ve got a unwilling marine land in all of that. Yes. To evolve in any way, shape or form to be a, financially viable, uh, you know, for the security of their own future. Uh, but b, to adhere to any of the laws that we essentially passed, both provincially and, uh, and federally, although we did ban the breeding of the whales. Yep. Had we not banned the breeding of the whales. So, so currently there’s 30 belugas remaining. There’s four dolphins. Uh, we got two sea lions and a, and a host of, uh, land animals there. Had we not banned the breeding of belugas in 2019? [00:01:41] Nate Erskine-Smith: Yep. [00:01:42] Phil Demers: And albeit, the pregnant belugas of 2019 were grandfathered in. [00:01:47] So there were some whale birth births there. On average, Marineland had five to seven belugas born per year. A couple would die. But there’s, you know, it’s conceivable to say that whereas [00:02:00] we have 30 right now in there, we would have had an excess of 50. Right. They would’ve kept probably 60. [00:02:05] Nate Erskine-Smith: Yes, of course they would’ve kept the business model broke down with that law. [00:02:08] But if they would’ve kept going otherwise, I mean, they’re, they were the bad actors. It’s the, it just wants to keep it active [00:02:12] Phil Demers: At this point. It’s the only, it’s the only part of the law that they’ve, ad they
More from Uncommons with Nate Erskine-Smith
Happy Passover and Easter to those celebrating. I hope everyone is able to enjoy some of this beautiful long weekend, and I hope some of you will also enjoy this Uncommons episode with the always thoughtful Karina Gould. We met in Karina’s stomping grounds of Burlington at Peach Coffee Co., and we cover a lot of ground, from AI and online safety, to Ford’s OSAP cuts, to school food. But the broader conversation is really about the future of progressive politics. Karina is a friend, she was an excellent minister (competence is underrated in politics!), and I still think she’d make a great premier, even though she’s opted out of the leadership race. A reminder that it’s advance polls for the three by-elections from today through Monday. And another reminder that we’re marching in this Sunday’s Beaches Lions Easter Parade, and you can join us at 1:30 pm at the RC Harris water treatment plant (the most important Easter tasks are rhyming clues for the kids’ Easter hunt and ironing my yellow/purple suits for the parade). I’ve been asked to be the grand marshal this year, which is pretty fun considering it’s my last year marching as an MP, I volunteered in the parade with the Lions before I was elected, and I watched this same parade as a kid. My belief is that government is there to be a force for good in people's lives. And when I think about what the job of the government is, it's to protect people, to keep them safe. That could be our borders, but that might also be economically, make sure we don't have people that are going hungry. All of these things that we actually have the power to do and that we could do, but we have to be intentional about doing it. - Karina Gould
Today marks the tenth anniversary of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s final report. We’ve seen significant albeit imperfect progress since and there’s much more for us to do together. On this episode of Uncommons, I’m joined by Ava Hill and Willie Littlechild, two incredible Indigenous leaders. We talk about the state of reconciliation and what real partnership could and should look like, with a specific focus on their work to advance Indigenous participation in sport. Ava Hill is a former Six Nations Chief, and Willie Littlechild is a former TRC commissioner, former MP, and residential school survivor.
Like many Canadians, Nate grew up on Raffi’s music. On this episode, Raffi joins Nate to discuss his musical journey, his ongoing advocacy for the peace and the planet, and why we need to centre children in our decision-making through his philosophy of child honouring. You can learn more about that philosophy via the “Raffi Foundation for Child Honouring”, but the idea is to emphasize the importance of respect, joy, and purpose in children’s lives and its potential to transform society. They also touch on Raffi’s advocacy against fascism, the power of music in activism, the urgent need for climate mobilization, protecting children from digital harm and his belief in having courage to speak out and be engaged in democracy. Raffi is a global troubadour, children’s entertainer, author and founder of the Raffi Foundation for Child Honouring. Called by the Washington Post as “the most popular children’s singers in the English-speaking world”.
Rutger Bregman is a Dutch historian, best-selling author, and co-founder of the School for Moral Ambition. His recent book and school both encourage us to spend our time and talent by making a difference on the greatest challenges and injustices of our time, rather than solely personal comfort and financial gain. Rutger joins me in this episode to explore how his ideas on moral ambition connect to social change, the big challenges we need your talent to solve, and what he hopes to accomplish with his new school.
Tanya Talaga is an award-winning author and journalist and a powerful voice for Indigenous rights and education in Canada. She’s also a constituent, which is how we happened to connect again recently when she was hosted by the House Speaker together with other finalists for the Shaugnessy Cohen Prize in political writing. Talaga joined me a number of years ago at the Fox Theatre to talk about her 2017 award-winning book Seven Fallen Feathers. This conversation focuses on her recent book, The Knowing. It is a deeply personal story in which she traces her own family’s history, and it is a story of Indigenous people in Canada, injustice, reclamation, and outlasting. With her own background one of both Anishinaabe and Polish descent, Talaga writes: “From the legacies of these dual branches of genocide, one on Turtle Island and one far off in eastern Europe - comes my knowing.” I recommend reading the book and you can also watch her docuseries at CBC Gem.