Show Notes
Recorded live from the expo hall at InfoSec World 2026, Jeff and Jim welcome back Joseph Carson, host of the Security by Default podcast, for his third appearance on the show. Joseph explains how his thinking has moved from "AI vs AI" to "AI vs reality" after talking with CISOs at roughly 40 events this year, including stories of agents breaking into systems they were never meant to touch and a CFO vibe coding a family scheduler on a corporate laptop. He walks through his three-tier framework for agent risk (task, operational, and legally binding agents), makes the case that agents need identifiers and audit trails rather than human-style treatment, and describes Identity Under Attack, a Dungeons and Dragons style tabletop exercise he ran at NATO CyCon with identity coins, chaos cards, and dice. The conversation also covers why identity resiliency keeps landing last on the shopping list, what Locked Shields teaches about communication and identity strategy, a sobering prediction for 2027, and what identity practitioners can do today with ephemeral, auditable access. The episode closes with a podcaster gear chat and the difference between AI slop and AI enabled work.
Connect with Joe: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josephcarson/
Security by Default podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@SecuritybyDefaultPodcast
Connect with us on LinkedIn:
Jim McDonald: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmcdonaldpmp/
Jeff Steadman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffsteadman/
Visit the show on the web at http://idacpodcast.com00:00 Intro from InfoSec World 2026 and Jeff's broken finger 02:33 Welcome back Joseph Carson 03:18 From AI vs AI to AI vs reality 05:02 CISO stories: rogue agents and the vibe-coding CFO 06:46 The rise of consumer agents 07:50 A three-tier framework for agent risk 10:52 Onboarding digital workers with a code of conduct 12:39 Identities or identifiers? Estonia's agent identity debate 15:34 Identity Under Attack: a Dungeons and Dragons style tabletop exercise 22:32 Bringing the exercise to conferences 24:49 What surprised Joseph: collaboration across roles 26:52 Common choices and why MFA comes first 28:16 Designing a budget that forces hard choices 29:29 Identity resiliency as an afterthought 31:24 AI as the Mario Kart mushroom 32:53 Lessons from NATO Locked Shields 35:49 Supply chain and third-party risk 37:18 Predictions for 2027 38:59 What identity practitioners can do now 40:23 Vibe coding and governance at AI speed 42:04 Podcast gear and AI-assisted production 48:02 AI slop vs AI enabled 52:17 About the Security by Default podcast 53:45 Wrap-up
IDAC, Identity at the Center, Jeff Steadman, Jim McDonald, Joseph Carson, Security by Default, InfoSec World 2026, Cyber Risk Alliance, agentic AI, AI agents, non-human identity, agent identity, digital workers, AI governance, vibe coding, tabletop exercise, Identity Under Attack, gamification, NATO CyCon, Locked Shields, MITRE ATT&CK, incident response, identity resiliency, MFA, privileged access, just-in-time access, ephemeral access, least privilege, supply chain risk, third-party risk, AI slop, podcasting
More from Identity at the Center
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Eve Maler, founder of Venn Factory and author of Mastering Digital Identity, joins Jim McDonald and Jeff Steadman for her tenth appearance on Identity at the Center. Eve shares what she has learned since the book came out, from writing for non-technical executives (and keeping AI out of the manuscript) to the strange places identity ends up on the org chart. The conversation covers treating identity as a product, why identity can be a business model in disguise, how CISOs can influence CIAM when they are not the boss of it, and the identity debt that AI is now calling due. Eve also explains why intent looks more like purpose of use than finer-grained authorization, how contract language can help frame agent mandates, what trust means to humans versus security teams, and the early work on UMA for Agents (U4A) to govern third-party agents through a resource-centric, protect surface mindset. The episode wraps with travel tips from all three frequent flyers.
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