How Much Better Can Solar Get? Deep Dive Australia 08: Martin Green

The world needs more metals than ever before, but can the mining industry deliver the resources responsibly? The energy transition depends on the mining industry, yet the sector faces hard questions over coal, carbon emissions, environmental damage and the rights of the communities whose land and resources it extracts. This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich puts those questions directly to Rohitesh ‘Ro’ Dhawan, President and CEO of the International Council on Mining and Metals (ICMM). Can mining companies credibly commit to net-zero 2050 while continuing to produce coal? Are they taking sufficient responsibility for the emissions generated by the products they sell? And can voluntary industry standards deliver meaningful accountability, or is the industry being trusted to police itself? Michael and Ro also touch on Indigenous consent, the lengthy process of permitting new mines, the economics of mineral processing and the challenge of electrifying some of the world’s largest machines. Topics covered: Responsible mining and global standards Mining's role in the energy transition Coal production and Scope 3 emissions Tailings dams and industrial safety Indigenous rights and community consent Faster permitting without weaker safeguards Africa's mineral wealth and value chains Electrifying giant mining trucks China's dominance in mineral refining AI, automation and smarter extraction Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live. Links: Rohitesh Dhawan’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rohiteshdhawan/ ICMM: https://www.icmm.com/ Mining Indaba 2027: https://miningindaba.com/ Mark Cutifani on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P50A_NfgE2A Subscribe to the Cleaning Up newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/ Acronyms: NGO: Non-Governmental Organisation PRI: Principles for Responsible Investment ESG: Environmental, Social, and Governance R&D: Research and Development GFRP: Glass Fibre Reinforced Polymer Chapters: 00:00 Intro 04:12 ICMM's Role 09:38 Tailings Dam Safety 13:01 Investor Accountability 16:13 Global Mining Standards 22:47 Coal and Emissions 31:20 Permitting New Mines 38:17 Who Benefits from Mining? 42:04 Smelting Economics 47:38 Moving Up Value Chains 51:29 Electrifying Mine Equipment 56:06 Mining Technology Breakthroughs 01:01:12 Outro

Can you make energy investments work in a country at war? Since Russia’s full-scale invasion in 2022, repeated attacks on Ukraine’s energy infrastructure have devastated its power system. By spring 2024, the country’s dispatchable generating capacity had fallen from 38 GW before the war to just 12 GW, leaving electricity in short supply and heating disrupted for many households. For this week’s Deep Dive Ukraine, Michael Liebreich is in Kyiv speaking to Andrii Gerus, Chair of the Ukrainian Parliament's Committee on Energy, Housing and Utility Services, and Dmytro Boroday, Partner at Horizon Capital, about the race to rebuild Ukraine's energy infrastructure, and the capital needed to make it happen. They examine how Ukraine is attracting international investors into wind, solar and battery storage, why distributed generation makes commercial as well as strategic sense, and how political risk insurance and development finance institutions are helping unlock projects. They also discuss the regulatory reforms needed to attract private capital, the challenge of corruption, and the potential for Ukraine to export electricity to neighbouring European markets. Topics covered in this episode: Ukraine's energy system under attack The shift to distributed generation Why renewables strengthen energy resilience What winter is like to live through Financing energy projects during war War risk insurance for private investors Attracting international capital into Ukraine Ukraine's future in European electricity markets Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live. Links: Andrii Gerus’ bio: https://forumkyiv.org/en/speakers/andrii-gerus Dmytro Boroday’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dmitryboroday/ Horizon Capital: https://horizoncapital.com.ua/ European Energy Community fund: https://www.energy-community.org/Ukraine/Fund/overview.html Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/ Acronyms: CHP: Combined Heat and Power TSO: Transmission System Operator DSO: Distribution System Operators IRR: Internal Rate of Return IC: Investment Committee GP: General Partner LP: Limited Partner EBRD: European Bank for Reconstruction Development IFC: International Finance Corporation DFI: Direct Foreign Investment PPA: Power Purchasing Agreement BESS: Battery Energy Storage System MIGA: Multilateral Investment Guarantee Agency Chapters: 0:00 Intro 1:06 Ukraine's Energy Crisis 3:29 Soviet Energy System 6:46 War Damage 10:09 Distributed Energy 13:31 Attracting Investors 17:03 War Risk Insurance 21:19 Corruption and Reform 27:04 Investing in Reconstruction 35:16 Financing New Renewables 41:03 Investing During War 47:26 Insurance Against War 51:26 Invitation To Investors 53:58 Outro

The world is facing a new era of geopolitical instability, rising energy costs and declining development finance. For many countries, access to reliable, affordable energy is no longer just an economic priority, it is a question of security. Recorded in New York during the United Nations General Assembly and Climate Week, this episode of Cleaning Up sees guest host Ana Rovzar, Chief of Staff at the Global Renewables Alliance, speak with Alexander De Croo, former Prime Minister of Belgium and now Administrator of the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP). They explore how renewable energy can reduce dependence on volatile fossil fuel markets, how decentralised energy systems can strengthen resilience, and what Ukraine’s experience reveals about protecting critical energy infrastructure. The conversation also examines how to attract investment in grids and clean energy, the decline in development assistance, and AI’s potential to accelerate progress. Topics covered in this episode: Energy security as national security Renewables and fossil fuel dependence Financing the global energy transition Ukraine's decentralised energy reconstruction Why grids are holding back progress De-risking investment in emerging markets Turning climate targets into action AI's potential to accelerate development Leadership Circle: Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live. Links: Alexander De Croo’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexanderdecroo/ Ana Rovzar’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ana-rovzar-2546b149/ Achim Steiner on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2prrV1dPSUI Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/ Michael Liebreich’s Pragmatic Climate Reset: https://about.bnef.com/insights/clean-energy/liebreich-the-pragmatic-climate-reset-part-i/ Acronyms: UNDP: United Nations Development Programme UNGA: United Nations General Assembly UNEP: United Nations Environmental Programme ODA: Official Development Assistance SDG: Sustainable Development Goal OECD: Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development Chapters: 00:00 Intro 04:56 UNDP’s Mission 07:11 Rethinking Development 14:19 Energy Security 17:39 Grids and Resilience 25:52 From Ambition to Action 28:23 Financing the Transition 36:44 Development and Security 41:27 De-risking Investment 45:05 UN Funding 50:06 AI and Development 57:03 Outro

It's been over four and a half years since Russia unleashed its full-scale invasion of Ukraine, and still the war shows no sign of stopping. This week on Cleaning Up, we launch a new Deep Dive looking at Ukraine and how its people and energy systems cope through the war. In this first episode, Michael Liebreich travels to Kyiv to find out what is happening on the ground. How are people coping with these desperate and difficult circumstances? How is the energy system coping? What can we in the international community do to help? And what do we need to learn from Ukraine's energy workers, how have they managed to keep the lights on? In Kyiv, Michael meets Oleksandr Tolokonnikov, Deputy Head of the Kherson Regional Military Administration, to find out how a region on the frontlines is coping with constant bombardment from Russian drones and missiles. He also speaks with Sorina Seitvelieva and Emine Emirsalieva, co-owners of Musafir, a Crimean Tatar restaurant that’s become known as a resilience hub, keeping people fed and warm during winter. And he ventures to an electricity substation under renovation, where he is shown around Oleksandr Kozhukhar, head of the high-voltage network operations department at DTEK Kyiv Grids. Oleksandr tells Michael how he keeps his team safe as they repair Kyiv’s battered electricity system, and why it’s so dangerous being an energy worker in Ukraine. From backup generators and emergency repairs to the challenges of protecting critical infrastructure from drones and missiles, the episode explores what resilience looks like in practice. It also asks what the rest of the world can learn from Ukraine’s experience, and what support is needed as the country prepares for another winter of war. Topics discussed in this episode: Energy workers repairing infrastructure under fire Preparing Ukraine’s energy system for winter What life is like under constant drone attacks Kherson’s fight to survive, and why civilians refuse to leave How local businesses are coping with damaged energy infrastructure Thanks to all those who made this episode possible. In particular, Imogen Payter, Heather Buchanan and UK Friends of Ukraine, who've led over 30 parliamentary trips to Kyiv. Gary Edwards and the team at Frontier Global for keeping us safe. Special mention goes to Dominic Culverwell at the Kyiv Independent and Maria Vlokh for her help with translation. Jo Jagger for making sure it happened, the rest of the Cleaning Up team and our Leadership Circle. And to Oscar Boyd, who produced, filmed and edited this episode. Leadership Circle Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live. Links Oleksandr Tolokonnikov’s bio: https://www.linkedin.com/in/oleksandr-tolokonnikov/ Unbreakable Kherson book: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unbreakable-Kherson-Ukrainian-Wartime-Resilience/dp/B0H6CYRFH7 DTEK Group: https://dtek.com/en/ Musafir restaurant: https://www.musafir.com.ua/en/ UK Friends of Ukraine: https://friendsofukraine.uk/ Kyiv Independent: https://kyivindependent.com/ Sign up to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com “мета ”: Ukrainian meaning goal/purpose/aim Chapters 00:00 Intro 01:40 Journey Into Ukraine 04:15 Life During War 05:55 The Kherson Frontline 09:26 Community Resilience 12:38 Preparing For Winter 13:31 Energy Security Lessons 15:04 The Drone Warfare Threat 19:03 Life In Kyiv 20:40 Musafir Restaurant 29:45 Keeping Ukraine Powered 35:35 Lessons For Europe 37:49 Outro

There's an old joke that energy from nuclear fusion is 30 years away and always will be. For many decades, the industry did little to spoil the fun, running mammoth and unwieldy research projects, hoovering up a few billion dollars every science funding cycle and announcing breakthroughs that were scientifically interesting, but did little to move us towards actual production of electricity. Then three things happened. First, perhaps emboldened by Elon Musk's successful disruption of the space industry with SpaceX, a bunch of wealthy investors started to invest in much nimbler startups. Second, in December 2022, the National Ignition Facility at the US's Lawrence Livermore National Lab announced that it had finally got more energy out of a fusion experiment than it had put in. And third, AI exploded on the scene, offering dramatic acceleration in everything. These developments have turned the slow-moving world of fusion on its head. Over $14 billion has now flowed into fusion startups, and that is on top of the tens of billions already committed to national and international programs, like the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER) in France, the UK's Spherical Tokamak for Energy Production (STEP) and a variety of US national labs. This week on Cleaning Up, Michael Liebreich sits down with the director of one of those labs. Professor Sir Steven Cowley has been entrusted with leading one of the jewels in the US's scientific crown. He has dedicated his academic career to trying to make fusion energy work, and he's been known to joke that he hopes it does so before he dies. Michael and Steven discuss the breakthrough experiments that have shown fusion is possible, why getting from a successful experiment to a commercial power station is such a huge leap, and whether fusion can ever deliver affordable, dispatchable electricity. Steven puts forward the idea that fusion might have a Theranos moment, where over-promises in the industry come back to bite. Topics discussed in this episode: How fusion actually works From experiments to electricity Laser versus magnetic fusion The commercial fusion challenge How AI can transform fusion research Fusion versus renewables and batteries Leadership Circle Cleaning Up is proud to be supported by its Leadership Circle. The members are Actis, Alcazar Energy, Arup, Climate Imperative Foundation, Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, Cygnum Capital, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP, Eurelectric, KKR, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, Schneider Electric, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit cleaningup.live. Links: Steven's TED Talk from 2009: https://www.ted.com/talks/steven_cowley_fusion_is_energy_s_future Steven’s talk at IPAM 2026: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USPd6zvA8pk Steven's talk at SOSV Steven’s talk at DeepTech Live, 2026: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-kb3784BPY Princeton Plasma Physics Lab: https://www.pppl.gov/ Hax Plasma Forge Incubator: https://hax.co/ Aneeqa Khan on Cleaning Up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhEoMd7DEho Subscribe to our newsletter: https://cleaninguppod.substack.com/ Acronyms: ITER: International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor STEP: Spherical Tokamak for Energy Production JET: Joint European Torus TFTR: Tokamak Fusion Test Reactor DOE: Department of Energy (US) FLiBe: Fluoride Lithium Beryllium NIF: National Ignition Facility Chapters: 00:00 Intro 03:24 Career in fusion 06:39 Commercial fusion 10:26 Laser fusion 18:40 Breeding tritium 23:33 Fusion startups 25:24 Laser versus magnets 29:21 Magnetic fusion 35:35 Reactor optimisation 40:35 AI controls fusion 44:52 Spherical tokamaks 46:33 Reversed-field fusion 49:24 Private fusion 53:07 Fusion economics 56:30 The future 57:14 Outro