#320: Earning $300K+ Per Year Without Social Media | Jessica Lackey's Relationship-First Approach
Creator Science with Jay ClouseShow Notes
My guest is Jessica Lackey, founder of Deeper Foundations and author of Leaving the Casino: Stop Betting on Tactics and Start Building a Business That Works. She helps coaches, consultants, and service providers build expert-led businesses on strong foundations.
Jessica tried the social media game. She hired a social media team for two years, ran Ship 30 for 30 on Twitter, tested Instagram. She never cracked 1,700 followers. So she built her business a different way: 50 guest podcast appearances, 50 guest teaching spots in other communities, 20 to 30 programs joined and participated in over four years. Every visibility opportunity landed 10 to 20 new people on her email list. It was slow, linear, and intentional. Today she has 2,000 people on her email list and 200 paying members in her membership. That's a 10% conversion rate on her list, against the creator industry standard of 1 to 3%.
Her business has earned over $300,000 for three consecutive years. Almost nothing she sells is one and done. The whole thing is built on renewals and retention, not growth and virality.
In this episode, we talk about:
How she built from 200 to 2,000 email subscribers through relationships and guest appearances, not social media
Her 3-offer stack (1:1 consulting, 6-month cohort, and membership) and how each piece supports the others
Why she does a 30-minute welcome call with every new member at $50 per month — and how she thinks about the economics
The KPIs she tracks with clients instead of followers and views: outreach count, visibility opportunities, and what she calls seeds, sprouts, and fruits
The trade-offs she's made by choosing this model and why she's made peace with them
By the end of this episode, you will have a clear picture of how a small, deliberate audience can support a thriving six-figure business — and what it actually costs to build one that way.
Deeper Foundations
Leaving the Casino
Deeper Foundations Membership
Aggressively Human
Community as a deliberate Business Model
“For You” or “By You”: The K-Shaped Content Era
The Zone of Enoughness
Sacred Sales Hour
Full transcript and show notes
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TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) Cold open: the trade-off Jessica has chosen
(00:19) Introducing Jessica Lackey
(02:34) Why the social media game didn't work for her
(04:05) The relationship-first growth strategy
(06:53) Her offer stack: 1:1, cohort, and membership
(09:39) Revenue breakdown and pricing
(10:52) How the membership grew from 30 members to 200
(12:52) The 30-minute welcome call that doesn't make economic sense
(18:29) Free monthly workshops for 4 years: the Deeper Business Dialogues
(20:21) The KPIs that actually matter for an expertise business
(22:26) Is there a ceiling on this approach?
(26:45) Why Jessica has chosen her ceiling on purpose
(43:53) How to follow people around the internet like a puppy, not a stalker
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RECOMMENDED NEXT EPISODE
#319: How Tamara Grominsky Predictably Grows Her Membership Each Month
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