Getting Comfortable With Being Uncomfortable

What happens when someone sees something in you that you don't yet see in yourself? Ken Perry has spent more than 40 years championing social housing in the UK. He started in 1982 in his local council's housing department, went on to influence national housing policy with the National Housing Federation, and served as a chief executive before stepping down in 2014. Today he works alongside people doing the work he once did, helping them build skills in adaptive leadership, systems leadership, and organizing. In this episode, Ken joins Karen and Eric to talk about the mission that has shaped his career: helping people do well and succeed. He shares how working with homeless families as a young man first made him feel useful, why politicians of every stripe usually want the same outcomes and differ on how to get there, and how debates over who should provide housing can become a form of work avoidance. Ken also tells the story of Richie Ward, the housing manager who changed a job posting so Ken could apply, and why "just give someone a chance" is still a call to action for all of us. It's a conversation about purpose, influence, and the difference one person's belief in you can make.

What do you do when your body is telling you to run, and you're in the middle of a conversation with your boss? Lisa Kaplin started her career as a psychologist doing clinical work, then found coaching and never looked back. She has been coaching since 2011 and now splits her time between coaching individuals and groups and training new coaches at iPEC, where Karen and Eric earned their own coaching credentials. In this episode, Lisa joins Karen and Eric to talk about what emotional intelligence really looks like in everyday life. They explore why awareness is where behavior change begins, what to do in the moment stress takes over, and why Lisa believes emotional intelligence will matter even more in a world shaped by AI. Lisa also shares what happens when successful people never develop it, how to tell someone a hard truth by first asking permission, and why changing yourself is one of the most powerful ways to change the system around you. It's a conversation about self-awareness, the power of the pause, and learning that what you have is enough.

Seeing patterns is one thing. Knowing what to do with them is another. In this episode, Karen sits down with Well•Led co-founder Eric Kebschull to talk about his unconventional career path, his lifelong drive to learn, and how he came to understand his own systems-thinking abilities. Eric shares how leaving a career that no longer aligned with his values ultimately led him to coaching, leadership development, systems thinking, and the work he does today. They explore what it’s like to see patterns and consequences others may not see, why being right isn’t enough to create change, and why the ability to mobilize people is just as important as diagnosing the problem. Karen and Eric also unpack the connection between systems thinking and adaptive leadership, the role trust, learning, and risk-taking play in adaptability, and the research Eric is leading at Well•Led to better understand how people and organizations adapt to change. Because systems thinking isn’t just about seeing what others miss. It’s about turning what you see into meaningful action.

What does it mean to lead in a way that continues long after you’re gone? Brian Holmes is the Chief of Police in Kingston, Massachusetts, after nearly three decades in law enforcement, and his experience has shaped a leadership philosophy centered on service, accountability, empathy, and preparing the people who will come next. In this episode, Brian joins Karen and Eric to talk about what leadership looks like when the responsibility gets heavier as you move up. They explore earning trust instead of relying on authority, listening long enough to understand the real problem, mentoring the next generation, and Brian’s work to build a regional crisis response program that brings law enforcement and mental health professionals together. It’s a conversation about giving more of yourself to the people you serve, having the courage to evolve, and building something that can continue long after you step away.

When the Problem Isn’t Really the Problem What if the problem you’re trying to solve isn’t actually the problem? Falk Bothe’s approach to that question has been shaped by an unusual combination of experiences, from corporate consulting and executive coaching to adaptive leadership, systems thinking, and even competitive dance, each teaching him something different about how people work together and how change really happens. In this episode, Falk joins Karen and Eric to explore what it takes to look beyond the symptoms of a problem and understand the larger system creating it. They talk about why people resist change, how our actions create ripple effects we may never see, what dancing taught Falk about leadership, and why solving complex problems requires curiosity before answers. It’s a conversation about seeing what’s really happening beneath the surface and helping people become part of the change rather than having change happen to them.