The Arrogant Ape: The Myth of Human Exceptionalism & Why it Matters with CHRISTINE WEBB
One Planet Podcast · Climate Change, Politics, Sustainability, Environmental Solutions, Renewable Energy, Activism, Biodiversity, Carbon Footprint, Wildlife, Regenerative Agriculture, Circular Economy, Extinction, Net-ZeroShow Notes
“There are many ways in which I think human exceptionalism has seeped into the sciences, but one of the many ways is through the methodologies we use when we compare the intelligence of humans and other species. In particular, in my field, I’m a primatologist by training, comparing the cognitive abilities of humans with the abilities of our closest living relatives, the great apes. Many times, those studies compare the intelligence of captive chimpanzees who are living in highly restricted, manmade environments. Often, these chimpanzees have been separated from their biological mothers at birth. They're often separated from the group during testing. They're subjected to very human-centric experimental paradigms, like playing with plastic puzzle boxes or computer touchscreens, and we're measuring how they perform on these tasks.” In this episode of Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with primatologist Christine Webb about her new book, The Arrogant Ape: The Myth of Human Exceptionalism and Why it Matters. The title of the book itself is a concise and precise description of its two constituent halves. First, Webb tells us how science itself, from premodern times onward, has operated with an assumption it keeps reconfirming constantly--that humans are not only exceptional, but also superior to other forms of life. Webb convincingly debunks this science over and over again. And most importantly, she explains how this myth has devastating political, cultural, and environmental consequences. Combining scientific and humanistic studies, we go into some detail about what this arrogance produces, and why we desperately need a much more humble sense of ourselves. Christine Webb is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Environmental Studies at New York University, where she is part of the Animal Studies program. Her research is driven by growing awareness that the ecological crisis demands a profound shift in how we understand other animals and our place among them, leading to two intersecting lines of inquiry. First, her work seeks to elucidate the complex dynamics of animal social life and to apply this knowledge to foundational questions in animal ethics and conservation. Second, she is interested in how prevailing societal norms, values, and institutions shape contemporary scientific knowledge of other animals and the environment, with a critical emphasis on human exceptionalism. Her debut book, The Arrogant Ape: The Myth of Human Exceptionalism and Why it Matters, was recently published with Avery (Penguin Random House) and is being translated into 17 languages. www.palumbo-liu.com https://speakingoutofplace.com Bluesky @palumboliu.bsky.social Instagram @speaking_out_of_place
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“I think first of all that in order to have disillusion, you need to have illusion and I really want to sort of take a stand in the name of being a delusional person, you know? I do think illusions are necessary to our sense of creativity, and we need to fall in love with extreme projects, and we need to have ideas that are sometimes unsustainable. We need to dream big in order to be creative and feel alive. The illusions that are a part of Aqua are larger illusions. They're illusions that have to do with my adult life. They're connected to nature and the presence or absence of water, the illusion that we can keep sustaining a city even though the water has run out.” My guest today, Chiara Barzini, has spent her life navigating the literal and cultural fault lines between Italy and California. Today we will discuss her book, Aqua: A Story of Water and Lost Dreams, and her life as an artist living between two countries. In her acclaimed 2017 novel, Things That Happened Before the Earthquake, she wrote about arriving in the San Fernando Valley just weeks after a catastrophic natural disaster and the illusions of the '90s. In Aqua, she examines nature, the California water crisis and the broken dreams of the Hollywood machine. We talk about family, film, art as an act of faith and our collective ecological coming of age, where the end of empire meets the end of abundance, and the consequences of hypercapitalism and colonialism. What does it mean to stare our illusions in the eye and find the courage to imagine a better future? (0:00) The Necessity of Illusions (1:40) Chiara Barzini, Author, Screenwriter (4:44) The End of Empire and Ecological Anxiety (12:15) The Allure and Cruelty of Capitalism (16:07) Aqua: A Reading - On Hollywood and Water (21:02) Screenwriter Robert Towne and the Legacy of Chinatown (26:20) AI Consumption and Water Bankruptcy (30:23) The Edge of Apocalypse and Bombay Beach (33:41) The Etruscans and the Art of Dying (42:33) Translation and Creativity (44:28) Raising Children in a Crazy World (47:30) Poetry, Ruins, and The Waste Land (57:33) Scents and Sounds of Rome and Los Angeles (01:04:17) The Connection with Animals and Nature (01:07:35) The Evolution of Love and Compassion (01:09:17) The Memory Museum (01:13:00) We Are in This Lifetime Together Episode Website www.creativeprocess.info/pod Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast
Chiara Barzini has spent her life navigating the literal and cultural fault lines between Italy and California. Today we will discuss her book, Aqua: A Story of Water and Lost Dreams, and her life as an artist living between two countries. In her acclaimed 2017 novel, Things That Happened Before the Earthquake, she wrote about arriving in the San Fernando Valley just weeks after a catastrophic natural disaster and the illusions of the '90s. In Aqua, she examines nature, the California water crisis and the broken dreams of the Hollywood machine. We talk about family, film, art as an act of faith and our collective ecological coming of age, where the end of empire meets the end of abundance, and the consequences of hypercapitalism and colonialism. What does it mean to stare our illusions in the eye and find the courage to imagine a better future? (0:00) Water as Power (2:17) The Necessity of Illusions (4:24) Aqua: A Reading - On Hollywood and Water (7:51) The Edge of Apocalypse & Writing (9:10) The Etruscans and the Art of Dying (13:13) Translation and the Creative Spark (14:38) Raising Children in a Crazy World (16:18) Poetry, Ruins, and The Waste Land (18:48) Scents and Sounds of Two Cities (Rome and Los Angeles) (20:43) The Connection with Animals and Nature (22:54) The Evolution of Love and Compassion (24:12) The Memory Museum (27:04) We are in this lifetime together Episode Website www.creativeprocess.info/pod Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast
"I really do believe that the arts are critical to how we move forward together, and live performance in particular, I think, is a way of us practicing how to move across our ideological boundaries and find one another and imagine these new worlds together and create together." Shanta Thake is the Chief Artistic Officer at Lincoln Center for the Performing Arts—the nation's largest performing arts complex. Before stepping into this role, she spent nineteen years at The Public Theater, shaping the city's cultural landscape through Joe's Pub and expansive community initiatives. Today, she is tearing down walls—both the literal barriers separating Lincoln Center from its neighbors, and the figurative ones that dictate who belongs in our cultural spaces. She views the arts not as a luxury, but as essential civic infrastructure. We are pleased to have Shanta Thake to discuss her journey, the power of radical curation, and the future of public performance. (01:30) The Gift of Pause (04:19) Art as the Oldest Technology (07:12) Reimagining Lincoln Center (09:35) A Collective Caretaking (10:13) The Curiosity of Childhood (15:19) San Juan Hill and The Wall (17:57) globalFEST: Music and Connection Episode Website www.creativeprocess.info/pod Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast
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Today, we have a conversation about time, memory, and the bittersweet geography of human sorrow. Georgi Gospodinovis widely considered one of the most daring voices in contemporary European literature. His acclaimed novel, The Physics of Sorrow, won the prestigious Jan Michalski Prize in 2016, blending ancient myth and quantum physics to chronicle the delicate realities of post-socialist Eastern Europe. Joining him is Angela Rodel, a brilliant linguist, musician, and translator whose profound artistic empathy carries the flowing cadences of the Bulgarian language into vivid English. Together, this extraordinary creative duo made history by winning the 2023 International Booker Prizefor Time Shelter—the first book written in Bulgarian to ever receive the honor. Time Shelter is a masterfully dark, funny, and prescient novel. It begins with an enigmatic psychiatrist opening a clinic that treats Alzheimer’s patients by meticulously recreating past decades to match their internal clocks. But the experiment quickly escapes the clinic walls, triggering a pan-European crisis where entire nations hold democratic referendums to choose which era of the past they will retreat into. It is a book that holds up a mirror to our own world, exploring what happens when a civilization faces a deficit of meaning and tries to weaponize nostalgia. (0:00) The Trap of Nostalgia (1:22) The Nonlinear Approach to Storytelling (3:53) Translating the Atmosphere (4:31) The Pandemic of the Past (6:37) Death and the Gardener (9:49) The Translators Calling (11:00) Slowing Down Time (13:14) Storytelling vs Propaganda (15:54) Translating the Atmosphere (18:19) What makes a good life? What has given your life meaning? (20:56) Reflections on God and the Stories His Grandmother Told Him (23:43) The Importance of Hugging, Empathy and Storytelling Episode Website www.creativeprocess.info/pod Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast