Complexified

Separation of Church and State Was a Baptist Idea. What Happened?

Complexified

Show Notes

The Baptist preacher (and Texas Lieutenant Governor) who stood before the White House Religious Liberty Commission had a message: there is no separation of church and state in the Constitution. That's a shift...

For two centuries, Baptists didn't just support the wall of separation between church and state — they built it. They famously asked Thomas Jefferson for it. And then as recently as 1960, Southern Baptist leaders argued that a Catholic president would surely subordinate the Constitution to the Pope. This devotion to a secular state was deep. But that was then, this is now...

Baylor University historian Elesha Coffman suggests Southern Baptists have become the very force they feared Catholics would be — a dominant religion using political power to shape society along theological ideals. According to Coffman, the receipts are right there in the historical record.

In this episode, Amanda Henderson talks with Coffman about her recent article, Southern Baptists have become what they once feared Catholics would be, about the winding path from Jefferson's reply to the Danbury Baptists, through the founding of a prominent anti church-state separation organization, through Ronald Reagan telling a room full of evangelical leaders, "I know you can't endorse me, but I endorse you," all the way to Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick declaring the wall never existed.

The question underneath it all: is this hypocrisy, strategy, or evolution? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

More from Complexified

Oct 20, 2026

Religion has always been part of American politics.

Oct 12, 2026

Televangelist Jim Bakker is dead at 86. And whatever else can be said about him, he was a true American original.

Oct 5, 2026

Soldiers are trained for physical combat. But war also confronts them with death, killing, grief, guilt and questions of meaning.

Sep 28, 2026

Across YouTube, podcasts and church conferences, a new group of pastors and influencers is promoting an openly racist and baldly antisemitic vision of Christian America. They present themselves not as extremists, but as respectable religious leaders defending truths that others are afraid to say.

Sep 21, 2026

Republican leaders across Texas are repeatedly warning that Sharia is an urgent threat to the state- making it a rallying cry as we head into the midterm elections. The Muslim community, who has long stayed quiet, is now organizing and speaking out.

See all episodes →