State of Mind: Mental Health and Education. Guest Episode - Dr Chris Bagley

In this bonus episode of The BIG Home Ed Conversations, Kelly Rigg is joined by Dr. Chris Bagley — educational psychologist, musician, author, and co-founder of States of Mind (with B. Herbert).

Together, they unpack why so many young people are “not ok at school” — and what happens when an education system prioritises compliance, metrics, and control over human development, agency, and real connection.

Chris shares why States of Mind is “allergic” to tokenistic ideas like “pupil voice” when they’re used as a fake listening exercise — where young people are asked for their opinions, but nothing actually changes. He explains how this can mirror an unhealthy relationship dynamic: being invited to be vulnerable, then ignored.

Kelly reflects on her own experience of being a “good student” who learned to tick boxes, impress adults, and stay quiet — and how that conditioning can follow us into adulthood, shaping our self-worth, relationships, and mental health. They explore how many parents in transition to home education are realising the same thing: school was supposed to be “good for them”… so why is their child anxious, distressed, or shutting down?

In this conversation we explore:

Why “normal” is a social construction (and why there may be no such thing as a “typical” brain)

How labels and diagnoses can sometimes become the only route to compassion — and why that’s complicated

The difference between genuine participation and performative “student voice”

Why young people need space to talk about their lives and the world without being controlled or shut down

How fear of uncertainty drives institutions to narrow, label, measure, and punish

Why agency, belonging, and autonomy matter (for children and adults)

Chris’s powerful reminder: you can’t have harmony without difference

Chris also shares what young people consistently ask for when they’re truly listened to: more agency, more authentic connection, and spaces to explore real life, mental health, and meaning — not just performance and compliance.

Links Chris Bagley’s book: States of Mind - https://www.statesofmind.org/

Sponsor: Strew is an online home education logging app that helps you capture what you’re doing day-to-day (photos, notes, tags), and optionally uses AI to reflect back the skills and areas of development you’ve covered — which can be especially helpful when you need to pull everything together later. Use code: BigHomeEd when you download it! https://strew.app/r/bighomeed