Bull Run in Loans Slams CLO Equity Buyers, Says Eagle Point’s Majewski

Mom-and-pop investors are buying hyperscaler debt after a selloff that has hit bonds with long maturities particularly hard, according to R. Seelaus & Co. “You’re just seeing absolute yields in long Meta paper, or a household name, that retail is starting to find really attractive,” Annie Seelaus, chief executive officer of the broker dealer and asset manager, tells Bloomberg News’ James Crombie and Bloomberg Intelligence’s Arnold Kakuda in the latest episode of the Credit Edge podcast. “That’s a microcosm of a bigger pocket of demand that’s out there,” says Seelaus, who notes that investors are moving into bonds as stocks become vulnerable to a correction. They also discuss secondary-market liquidity, contagion risks, the asset-backed security boom, private credit turmoil and how to invest in data centers.

TCW’s $160 billion fixed-income group has slashed credit risk to the lowest in three decades amid valuation and contagion concerns. “Look back over the last 30 years — you would not find a period where we had less exposure to both investment-grade and high-yield bonds as we do today,”Bryan Whalen, the group’s chief investment officer, tells Bloomberg News’James Crombie and Bloomberg Intelligence’sJody Lurie in the latest episode of the Credit Edge podcast. They also discuss the potential for distress in debt rated CCC to spread to other parts of the corporate debt market. “That is the weakest borrower, and they cry uncle first,” says Whalen, referring to CCCs. “Make no mistake about it — your single B borrower is going to feel it next, and then your double B borrowers.” See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Blackstone is looking to more than double its $40 billion systematic credit business, which uses models to crunch data and build portfolios. “This can and should be a $100 billion business if you look at us compared to other large traditional discretionary fixed-income managers,” Adam Dwinells, Blackstone Credit & Insurance’s head of corporate bond strategies, tells Bloomberg News’ James Crombie and Bloomberg Intelligence’s Jean-Yves Coupin in this episode of the Credit Edge podcast. He expects systematically managed portfolios to rise to 20%-25% of the market, matching equities, from about 1%-2% in US corporate credit now. “You could certainly see something on that order of magnitude in credit eventually. Maybe not over the next couple of years, but over the next decade,” he adds. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

More private investors in distressed companies are looking to replace directors and take control, according to Kirkland & Ellis. “It’s a very important remedy — it candidly drives a lot of negotiation when things are distressed,” H.T. Flanagan, a debt finance partner at the law firm, tells Bloomberg News’ James Crombie and Bloomberg Intelligence’s David Havens in the latest Credit Edge podcast. “I have seen folks explore this with greater frequency and execute it with greater frequency,” says Flanagan, who advises private debt funds and alternative lenders. They also discuss the outlook for liability management exercises, hybrid capital solutions and opportunities in defense, aerospace and financial services. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Magnetar Capital is scouring a $600 billion pile of troubled corporate bonds and loans for value as much of the debt comes due. “Yesterday’s buyout boom is today’s credit opportunity,” Austin Camporin, head of special situations at the $17 billion alternative asset manager, tells Bloomberg News’ James Crombie and Bloomberg Intelligence’s Negisa Balluku in the latest Credit Edge podcast. “It’s those small firms that incurred debt in the zero interest rate environment, primarily in the broadly syndicated loan market, that are obviously having a harder time,” Camporin says. They also discuss private credit risk and investment opportunities in software, healthcare services, building materials and packaging. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.