S2 Episode One: Professor Joanne Banks "All means all, but does it?"
Let's Talk About Sociology of EducationShow Notes
Joanne is a lecturer and researcher in inclusive education at the School of Education in Trinity College Dublin. Joanne worked for over a decade in education research in the Economic and Social Research Institute on education research before moving to Trinity. She has a PhD in History from University College Dublin, and a degree in Geography and Sociology from Trinity College Dublin. Her research interests are in the field of inclusive education and educational inequality. She has published widely on special and inclusive education policy and practice, school exclusion, and student diversity. She is the presenter and author of the Inclusion Dialogue podcast series and books.
Link to Joanne’s podcast: Inclusion Dialogue | Podcast on Spotify
And Joanne’s book: Banks, J. (2023). The Inclusion Dialogue: Debating issues, challenges and tensions with global experts, London: Routledge Education.
In this episode we discuss a myriad of inclusion related issues and concepts as Joanne describes her career to date and explains the title she has chosen for this episode stating that she “picked the title because it's the most controversial thing in my field, my sub kind of area, which is inclusive education”, and how “it incenses some academics and others around the world, and other academics stand firmly behind it”. She believes that it is quite a polarized well and “can often appear quite a polarized debate”, She emphasises that “increasingly, it's changing…and refers to full inclusion and whether our education systems are striving for an education system where every child has the right and capacity or ability to attend their local school regardless of whatever characteristics they hold, whatever background they have..”
She says that the All means all movement is quite common and while it is not a term hugely used in Ireland, “possibly because it's nearly too contentious”, but in Australia, New Zealand and in Canada, All means all is a movement. Joanne believes that it is a way of addressing some government systems who profess to have an inclusive education system.
We also discuss the following; Early Career and Research Interests Joanne describes her PhD experience at UCD and her multidisciplinary research environment, her role at the Economic and Social Research Institute (ESRI) and her research work on the Leaving Cert Applied (LCA) programme. Sociology of Education and Inclusive Education Joanne discusses the sociology of education and its relevance to her work and highlights the importance of inclusive education and the challenges faced by students with special educational needs within our education system and in our schools and education settings.
The Inclusion Dialogue Podcast and Book She recalls being prompted by the realization that there was a wealth of knowledge about inclusion from “really amazing academics all around the world”, and that there was no kind of common binding force or base for students to access that material. She decided to email twelve people that she had been reading for decades “and quite intimidated by probably”, but they all came back and were delighted to participate in her podcast and it grew from there.
Other topics we discuss include; challenges in inclusive education and systemic issues; the role of guidance and support in education; The Altitude Charter and Universal Design in Education and the role of Artificial Intelligence in education.
This was a really thought provoking podcast episode and it was a real privilege to speak to Joanne about all things ‘inclusion’ through a sociology of education lens. Tune in and listen to this episode to learn much more and also tune in to Joanne’s Inclusion Dialogue podcast for more great episodes, her The Inclusion Dialogue book is available here.
More from Let's Talk About Sociology of Education
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