Debating ‘DeGrowth’ Green Economics - Michael Mezz

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Another heatwave just dropped so we’re here with our first in-depth convo on the climate crisis, joined by one of the world’s biggest eco-influencers, Michael Mezz.

After studying economics at Stanford, Michael decided to hold onto his soul and become an activist to prevent ecological collapse. Remember folks, the magic circle law firm / big 3 consultancy isn't the only way.

In this episode we explore the major shift in green politics: away from classic environmentalism and towards a social media friendly left-populist economics. In particular, we discuss the decline in the ‘green growth’ agenda and the rise of the ‘degrowth’ or ‘post-growth’ political economy, pushed by thinkers like Jason Hickel (who has featured on Michael's podcast).

What would reality look like if we exited the perennial treadmill of infinite growth? If such a future is possible how can it happen?

Our objections to degrowth models centre on the global top-down application of such economic theories. Is a wholesale rewiring of the global economy a fantasy untethered from the hard realities of geopolitical competition?

We also examine challenges around the Jevons Paradox (that energy efficiency creates greater throughput rather than reducing emissions), whether China is making a moral or expedient green transition and why green economists can’t escape the attraction of modern monetary theory.

The question the left has to answer in the face of radical global uncertainty and multipolar competition over energy, security and tech, is who benefits from our system?

A world of automation beckons under a canopy of ecological collapse and mass suffering. The old world has certainly died and a new world struggling to be born. Let's hope it's not on Mars.

Chapters 00:00 Intro 04:14 Polanski and Eco-Populism 11:20 Zarah Sultana Hypocrisy 12:11 Internationalism vs. Nationalism 17:42 Has ‘Green Growth’ Failed? 26:02 Why Eco-Socialists Want ‘De-Growth’ 30:55 Does De-Growth Make Sense? 40:44 China’s Electrodollar vs. US Petrodollar 49:50 The Challenge of Declining Living Standards 57:20 Global Anti-Imperialism 1:00:54 Debating Modern Monetary Theory 1:05:22 Wealth Taxes and Democratic Capitalism 1:17:45 Is Populism De Facto Bad?