Show Notes
Digital badges and credentials promise to finally show what a learner actually knows. Dr. Kelly Page says that promise has a dark side nobody's talking about. In this episode, host Mason Pashia talks with Dr. Kelly Page, a social design ethnographer and author of "When Credentials Cause Harm: Unpacking the Risks of Verifiable Learning and Work Records." Kelly has spent years documenting how well-intentioned credentialing systems can end up excluding, surveilling, or flattening the very people they're supposed to empower. They get into who actually controls a learner's record, why some of the most marginalized communities are also the most wary of the video documentation these systems rely on, and why more data isn't the same as the right data. Kelly makes the case for a future built on self-sovereign data, where students and workers, not districts or vendors, own and control their own records, and shares practical advice for school leaders on what to ask before adopting any new credentialing technology. Guest Links Kelly's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/drkellypage/ Live What You Love (LWYL Studio): lwylstudio.com When Credentials Cause Harm (book): https://www.amazon.com/When-Credentials-Cause-Harm-Verifiable/dp/1969861029
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Ten years ago, a small team asked a wild question: could you actually pay people to learn? That question sent them around the world, and eventually to building the infrastructure behind digital credentials used by Scouts, schools, and employers everywhere. In this episode, host Mason Pashia talks with Jacksón Smith, co-founder and CTO of the Learning Economy Foundation, about why credentials alone aren't very persuasive on their own, what it means to treat data portability as a public good, and the three verbs, collect, understand, navigate, behind their open-source app LearnCard. They also get into peer endorsements, why stories carry more weight than certificates, and LearnCard's new "Learner GPS," a Google Maps for figuring out where to go next in your education or career. Resources Jacksón's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacksonsmithcurtis Learning Economy Foundation: https://www.learningeconomy.io/ LearnCard: https://www.learncard.com/ "Why Learner Wallets Will Fail (And How to Make Sure They Don't)": https://www.gettingsmart.com/2026/01/06/why-learner-wallets-will-fail-and-how-to-make-sure-they-dont/
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