Rethinking AV Safety as Robotaxis Scale with Junko Yoshida

This week’s edition is brought to you by Terawatt – purpose-built charging for autonomous vehicle fleets. Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, and Substack. Transcripts are also available by clicking on the “transcripts” button in the top right corner of this post on the app/web version. You can also access them from the email version by clicking here. In today’s episode, I’m speaking with Nat Beuse, Chief Safety Officer at Aurora. Nat shares his background in vehicle safety across the public and private sectors, the lessons he’s learned along the way, and how those experiences shape his approach to autonomous trucking. We dive into Aurora’s fully driverless operations and the steps the company took to close its safety case. Nat explains the operating conditions its trucks are designed to handle, how Aurora plans for edge cases, and how it tracks uptime, reliability, and other metrics. We also discuss the company’s latest milestones and what changes as its fleet scales. The conversation explores public perception, how autonomous vehicle companies balance competition with collaboration on safety, and Aurora’s approach to sharing knowledge and safety information with the public. Nat also discusses the benefits of being a publicly listed company and the importance of transparency as driverless operations expand. Finally, we look at the regulatory landscape for autonomous trucking and the hurdles to establishing a federal framework. Chapters * (00:00) Introduction to Nat Beuse * (02:07) Nat’s background in vehicle safety, across the public and private sectors * (05:57) Nat’s safety philosophy and what he’s learned from working on vehicle safety over the years * (09:55) Aurora’s operations and the safety case for its driverless operations * (12:50) Facts and figures from Aurora’s fully driverless operations * (15:55) The steps Aurora took to close its safety case * (19:20) Aurora’s operational design domain (ODD) and the various use cases for its customers * (22:12) The operational limits of Aurora’s driverless trucks and how they plan for edge cases * (24:05) How Aurora tracks uptime, reliability, and other metrics * (25:50) Aurora’s latest milestones and what changes as its fleet scales * (28:00) The importance of public perception and how it changes as the business scales * (30:15) How AV companies collaborate on safety and the role of competition in the space * (33:27) How Aurora contributes to knowledge sharing across the AV industry * (34:55) The benefits of being publicly listed and sharing Aurora’s safety case with the public * (37:30) The current regulatory landscape for autonomous trucking * (41:09) The hurdles to establishing a federal regulatory framework for autonomous trucking * (43:19) Conclusion and final thoughts Designing Charging Hubs for Autonomous Fleets We are excited to partner with Terawatt this week, one of the leading charging infrastructure providers. To learn more about Terawatt’s nationwide real estate portfolio and track record of cutting cost per mile for AV fleet operators, reach out to Peter Cohen at [email protected] Notes/Links: * You can find Nat Beuse on LinkedIn. * Aurora’s website (link). * Dave Ferguson of Nuro’s interview with Aurora CEO Chris Urmson, mentioned at the 05:43 timestamp (link). * Aurora’s Safety Case Framework, mentioned at the 10:41 timestamp (link). * The independent assessment of Aurora’s safety case, mentioned at the 18:00 timestamp (link). * Aurora’s voluntary safety self-assessment, mentioned at the 36:24 timestamp (link). * Feel free to leave us a review on our Apple Podcasts page, then send us a screenshot in an email reply to score some TDD swag! -Harry

Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, and Substack. Transcripts are also available by clicking on the “transcripts” button in the top right corner of this post on the app/web version. You can also access them from the email version by clicking here. In today’s episode, I’m speaking with Armir Harris, founder and CEO of CharterUP. Armir breaks down the company’s group transportation business, the customers it serves, and why it has built its platform without owning any buses. Armir will also be speaking at our upcoming Austin Urban Autonomy Summit on October 14th, on the panel “From Long Haul to Last Mile: AVs Take on New Form Factors.” Apply to attend here so you don’t miss out! We explore how CharterUP is preparing for autonomy, including its partnership with HOLON and plans to bring autonomous shuttles into its network. Armir shares where he sees the biggest opportunities for autonomy to impact the business, the limitations of automating mass transit, and what autonomous group transportation could offer customers. We also discuss how autonomous shuttles could fit into the broader transportation network alongside robotaxis and human-driven vehicles. The conversation covers the potential safety benefits of autonomous buses, the role people will continue to play in deploying and operating these services, and how CharterUP is approaching that transition. Finally, Armir discusses CharterUP’s first autonomous vehicle deployment, future deployment timelines, and what it will take for autonomous shuttles to become a mainstream transportation option in the coming years. Chapters * (00:00) Introduction to Armir Harris * (01:08) What is CharterUP and what does it do? * (03:01) CharterUP’s footprint, offerings, and customers * (05:07) Why CharterUP doesn’t own any buses and the advantages of its business model * (06:00) Armir’s thoughts on the current autonomy landscape and how it could impact CharterUP’s business * (08:18) How CharterUP’s business is evolving to embrace autonomy * (09:40) Where Armir sees the biggest impact of autonomy on CharterUP’s business * (11:02) The limitations of automating mass transit * (12:30) CharterUP’s partnership with HOLON and their plans to advance autonomous group transport * (15:43) Who are the leaders in the autonomous group transportation space? * (17:28) What is CharterUP’s most compelling value proposition for its customers? * (19:38) Would autonomous buses be safer than human driven ones? * (20:25) The role of humans in deploying autonomous group transportation and how CharterUP is looking at the transition * (23:30) Autonomous group transportation vs. robotaxis * (24:20) How autonomous shuttles fit into the transportation network alongside robotaxis and human-driven vehicles * (25:19) CharterUP’s first AV deployment and future deployment timelines * (26:04) Armir’s outlook for autonomous shuttles and what it’ll take for them to go mainstream in the coming years * (27:50) Conclusion and final thoughts Notes/Links: * You can find Armir Harris on LinkedIn/X. * CharterUP’s website (link). * The CharterUP-HOLON partnership mentioned at the 12:30 timestamp (link). * You can find some of our previous coverage on shared autonomous transport: * The Real Impact of Autonomy Will Come From Buses (link). * Redefining Travel Time with PIX Moving’s Autonomous Shuttles (link). -Harry

Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, and Substack. Transcripts are also available by clicking on the “transcripts” button in the top right corner of this post on the app/web version. You can also access them from the email version by clicking here. In today’s episode, The Driverless Digest Editor Ben Hubbard speaks with Augustin Friedel, an expert in software-defined vehicles (SDV) and AI-enabled mobility. Augustin shares his background in the industry and examines Europe’s autonomous vehicle landscape, including how it compares with the rest of the world and what it will take to move from pilots to commercial deployments. They take a closer look at the Uber-Verne-Pony.ai pilot in Zagreb, Uber’s role in accelerating autonomous vehicle deployment, and Bolt’s position in the European robotaxi market. Augustin also discusses whether Europe’s autonomous vehicle demonstrations can become scalable businesses and the concerns surrounding partnerships with Chinese developers. Finally, they explore the infrastructure needed to support robotaxi fleets, including the challenges of finding suitable sites in cities like London. They discuss where the real value lies in the robotaxi business, from technology and fleet operations to customer demand, before closing with Augustin’s outlook for Europe’s progress over the next year. Chapters * (00:00) Introduction to Augustin Friedel * (01:32) Augustin’s background in the mobility/autonomy space * (04:51) The autonomy landscape in Europe and how it compares to the rest of the world * (06:46) The Uber-Verne-Pony.ai AV pilot in Zagreb and the state of AV pilots/deployments in Europe * (09:51) What’s needed to scale AV deployments in Europe * (11:20) Can European AV demos become scalable businesses? * (14:02) Uber’s role in accelerating AV deployment in Europe * (16:00) Bolt’s position in the European robotaxi landscape * (17:50) Is Europe at risk of becoming a market for boring AV technology? * (20:41) Are there concerns about partnering with Chinese AV companies? * (21:59) The state of the European AV infrastructure landscape and how it could evolve * (26:40) Realities and challenges of siting AV infrastructure in European cities like London * (30:54) Where the real value lies in the robotaxi business: fleet operations, demand, tech, etc. * (35:00) What progress can Europe make over the next year? * (36:38) Conclusions and final thoughts Notes/Links: * You can find Augustin on Linkedin. * Check out our previous guest podcast with Augustin and Daniel (link).

Listen to this episode on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, and Substack. Transcripts are also available by clicking on the “transcripts” button in the top right corner of this post on the app/web version. You can also access them from the email version by clicking here. In today’s episode, I’m speaking with Raquel Urtasun, Founder and CEO of Waabi. Raquel shares how she got into the self-driving field, why she left Uber to build Waabi, and what she believes sets the company apart. We also discuss Waabi’s current operations and footprint, its philosophy, and the three pillars Raquel sees as essential to commercial scale. Raquel explains how much human supervision Waabi’s trucks require today and the final milestone before the company can operate without a driver. We dig into the metrics Waabi uses to measure progress, its hardware approach, and its partnership with Volvo Autonomous Solutions. She also discusses Waabi’s other truck manufacturer partnerships and how quickly the Waabi Driver can transfer between vehicle platforms. The conversation then turns to how Waabi tests its claims about zero-shot transfer across truck platforms and why Raquel chose trucking as the company’s starting point. We compare trucking with other autonomous vehicle markets and discuss Waabi’s fundraising and its partnership with Uber to deploy robotaxis. Finally, Raquel shares her perspective on what it will take to bring autonomy to more vehicles at scale. Chapters * (00:00) Introduction to Raquel Urtasun * (01:50) Raquel’s background and how she got into the self-driving field * (04:35) Why Raquel Urtasun left Uber to build Waabi * (07:20) How Waabi stands out from its competitors * (09:20) Waabi’s current operations, footprint, and philosophy * (11:30) Waabi’s three pillars for commercial scalability * (16:07) What level of human supervision is involved in Waabi’s current product? * (16:30) Waabi’s final milestone before full driverless operations * (20:30) What drives Waabi’s scalability, and which KPIs does it track? * (22:40) Waabi’s hardware and partnership with Volvo Autonomous Solutions * (24:45) Waabi’s other OEM partnerships * (25:35) How quickly the Waabi Driver transfers between vehicle platforms * (28:30) How Waabi scientifically tests zero-shot transfer across OEM truck platforms * (30:45) How Raquel ranks different autonomy verticals and why Waabi started with trucking * (36:50) Waabi’s fundraising and their partnership with Uber to deploy robotaxis * (40:45) Conclusion and final thoughts Notes/Links: * You can find Raquel Urtasun on LinkedIn/X. * Waabi’s partnership with Volvo Autonomous Solutions, mentioned at the 22:40 timestamp (link). * Waabi’s announcement of the Waabi Driver’s zero-shot transfer between truck platforms, mentioned at the 25:18 timestamp (link). * Waabi’s latest fundraising and partnership with Uber, mentioned at the 36:48 timestamp (link). * Waabi’s website (link). -Harry

Thanks to Jonah Bliss for originally covering this on The Curbivore - Let Them Linger? The Surprising Case for Robotaxis at the Curb In a new study, Associate Professor Michael Hyland at UC Irvine explains why giving robotaxis somewhere to wait between rides could be crucial to avoiding unnecessary miles on city streets. Where should a robotaxi go after dropping off a passenger? It could wait at the curb, head back to a depot or it could simply keep moving. A new study from researchers at UC Irvine and UC Berkeley examines what happens when shared autonomous vehicles are prevented from resting (otherwise known as staging) at the curb in San Francisco. The researchers simulated a fleet of 1,700 robotaxis serving 68,000 daily trips. In the no-staging scenario, the fleet traveled 564,650 kilometers per day. Allowing the vehicles to stage at the curb reduced daily vehicle miles traveled (VMT) by nearly 60%. Michael Hyland, Associate Professor of Civil and Environmental Engineering at UC Irvine and one of the researchers behind the study, spoke to The Driverless Digest Editor Ben Hubbard about why curb access matters for robotaxis, how cities should manage valuable curb space, and what the rise of personally owned driverless vehicles could mean for congestion. The Driverless Digest: Tell us about your role? Michael Hyland: My research is broadly on modeling and analyzing transportation systems. I tend to focus on innovations in the transportation space, such as driverless vehicles, both in terms of shared fleets and personally owned, but also technologies like e-scooters, e-bikes, ride-hailing and micro-transit. My work involves how to operate these systems efficiently, how to design them effectively, and then I also try to understand their impact on people living in cities. You’ve recently conducted a pretty comprehensive study on managing curb usage. Can you explain the experiment and what you set out to understand? The idea was to test the impact of banning shared automated vehicles from using the curb. So this is not when they pick up and drop off passengers, but for what we call staging or parking between one drop-off and the next pickup. Essentially, the time when the vehicle doesn’t have anything to do. The main result, of course, is that it has pretty big implications on what these vehicles do with their time. When they can’t stage, they just circle around the transportation network. In this case, they dramatically increased vehicle miles traveled on the roadway network in San Francisco. We don’t model congestion in our study, but the implications for congestion, I think, are somewhat obvious directionally. It would make congestion worse, most likely in some of the most congested parts in San Francisco. We ran some other scenarios related to weekends versus weekdays, preventing vehicles from staging at night versus only during the day. Most of the results were pretty similar. If you’re strategic with where you ban the robotaxis from using the curb, the size of the VMT impact is much smaller, but there still is an adverse impact. Plenty of people have probably wondered where an AV goes after it has dropped off a passenger. Do they just drive around in circles? Do they wait? Could you explain how this study came about because I can imagine this is going to become a really important topic when AVs take off. Yeah, that’s right. As there are more fleets, the impact will be much larger. The study actually came from Waymo reaching out to us here at UC Irvine via Susan Shaheen’s group at UC Berkeley. They knew we did modeling and they asked us to interview stakeholders in cities to understand how they’re thinking about regulating the curb and using the curb for not just robotaxis but also Uber and Lyft-type vehicles, and micromobility too. They came to us and said, “Hey, we think it’s mutually beneficial for us at Waymo and for cities for our vehicles to be able to use the curb when we’re not serving passengers,” as opposed to just