TWICM 214: James Hurman Future Demand, Making the Commercial Case for Brand Investment
That's What I Call MarketingShow Notes
James Hurman, author of Future Demand and co-founder of Tracksuit, joins That’s What I Call Marketing to explain how brand building creates future demand, how performance marketing converts current demand and why marketers need both to drive sustainable growth. This episode offers a practical way to understand how advertising really works, how to build the internal case for brand investment and how marketers can move an organisation beyond a performance-only mindset without betting everything on one dramatic change. In this episode, we cover: – Why James Hurman rewrote Future Demand specifically for marketers – The relationship between brand building, future demand and performance marketing – Why advertising rarely causes an immediate sale but can help a brand win a greater share of future sales – How Instacart CMO Laura Jones “marched up the funnel” from measurable performance activity to the Olympics and the Super Bowl – How Telstra tested a 50:50 brand and performance split in Adelaide and recorded a 14% improvement against the rest of Australia – How marketers can use experiments, geographic holdouts and better measurement to demonstrate incrementality – Why CEOs, CFOs and marketers often want the same commercial outcome but describe marketing investment in very different language – What AI, agentic shopping, AEO and GEO could change — and why the fundamentals of markets, brands and human decision-making still matter James challenges the traditional idea that advertising works by persuading somebody to buy immediately. Instead, he describes a two-stage process: brand advertising creates familiarity and positive bias among people who are not yet in the market, while performance activity helps convert that existing bias when they are ready to buy. He also shares practical examples of how marketers can earn confidence gradually, measure brand investment more rigorously and communicate its commercial value to non-marketing stakeholders.
That’s What I Call Marketing is the podcast for marketers who care about brand, B2B, creativity, effectiveness and the future of the profession. Follow the show for more conversations with CMOs, marketing leaders, agency leaders, professors, authors, thinkers and practitioners. Find more episodes at: https://www.thatswhaticallmarketing.com CHAPTERS 03:47 Exploring what a marketing book can be 05:40 Why James rewrote Future Demand 07:39 Creating future demand and converting current demand 08:29 Laura Jones and Instacart’s four-year brand journey 11:03 How Instacart “marched up the funnel” 12:00 Telstra’s geographic holdout test in Adelaide 14:16 Making marketing science easier to understand 16:11 The wrong mental model for advertising 17:44 How advertising creates and converts demand 19:06 Is advertising really a weak force? 20:07 Why the evidence has not changed every organisation 21:43 Winning support from non-marketing stakeholders 23:38 Creating a shared language with CFOs 25:18 Why James remains invested in solving this problem 26:56 How marketing cultures differ across markets 29:53 Better marketing measurement and experimentation 31:27 Using AI to learn and improve marketing capability 34:14 How AI is affecting businesses and marketing 37:21 Will agentic shopping change consumer behaviour? 39:58 Familiarity, emotion and why people choose brands 40:58 What McDonald’s “brand love” metric predicts 42:19 Tracksuit University and the language of the boardroom 44:25 Where to find Future Demand ABOUT JAMES HURMAN James Hurman is the author of Future Demand and The Case for Creativity. He is a co-founder of Tracksuit and founding partner of innovation studio Previously Unavailable. His work focuses on marketing effectiveness, creativity, brand building and helping businesses understand how marketing contributes to long-term commercial growth. Explore Future Demand: https://future-demand.com Learn more about Tracksuit: https://www.gotracksuit.com Visit Tracksuit University: https://university.got
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