Francis Fukuyama Reflects on His Career and the Challenges Facing Liberal Democracy

Bob Bauer and Jack Goldsmith discuss Jack’s October 19 piece on Senator Elissa Slotkin’s recent viral remarks at the University of Chicago, where she said she wanted accountability for the people who enabled President Trump, at least in part with the goal of sending a “deterrence message” to new graduates who might consider working for the administration. Jack explains why he thinks Senator Slotkin’s remarks were imprudent, and why he finds the prevailing reaction from pro-Trump quarters hypocritical. Bob presses on whether congressional investigation is different from weaponizing law enforcement, and whether worry about retaliation could lead to the most lawless conduct going unanswered. They also discuss Jack’s prediction that Trump will issue thousands of pardons, his case for prioritizing transparency, and why it is, and will continue to be, incredibly challenging for either side to de-escalate.

Jack interviews attorney and historian Catherine Grace Katz about her new book, Shadow Before the Flame: The Hindenburg Disaster and the Prelude to War. They discuss how a 1925 U.S. ban on helium exports required German airships to fly on flammable hydrogen, leading to the famous 1937 explosion over New Jersey. They also cover the Nazi takeover of the struggling Zeppelin company and the subsequent use of its airships as propaganda tools, and the later controversy surrounding whether to sell helium to Germany even after Congress relaxed the export ban. Katz closes by noting parallels to AI and other dual-use technologies, the necessity of balancing civilian risk against potential benefits, and the hubris that often accompanies large-scale innovation.

Bob interviews Nate Persily, the James B. McClatchy Professor of Law at Stanford Law School and co-director of the Stanford Law AI Initiative, about artificial intelligence and democracy, with particular attention to elections. They discuss what’s driving American anxiety about AI, why Republican and Democratic users alike rate AI models as left of center, and why Persily thinks the greater danger from deepfakes is not voters who are fooled but voters who stop believing what’s true—the “liar’s dividend.” They also take up the risks of relying on chatbots for voting information, state laws requiring disclosure of AI in political ads, and why Persily, though not “an unrepentant doomer,” thinks the time to regulate AI may be running out rapidly.

Bob Bauer interviews Tammy Patrick, Chief Executive Officer for Programs at the Election Center and former Federal Compliance Officer for the Maricopa County Elections Department, about how election officials are preparing for the midterm elections. They discuss differences between an imperfect election and an illegitimate one, the decentralized patchwork of thousands of local offices that administers the vote, the checks set up to constrain partisan officials or rogue insiders, and why federal intervention now tops the list of concerns for many officials. Tammy closes with advice for voters: make a plan, vote early, and don’t mistake a slow count for a rigged one.

Jack and Bob discuss the legality of the three advertisements praising President Trump that have recently aired with the tag “Paid for by the U.S. Government” and were reportedly paid for with Department of Homeland Security funds. They explain why the advertisements run afoul of the annually enacted appropriations rider barring the use of public money for publicity or propaganda purposes, and examine how the Government Accountability Office’s categories of impermissible propaganda apply to each of the three ads. They also touch on the less-clear relevance of the Hatch Act, why the applicable enforcement mechanisms are unlikely to be used, and what might explain an administration with ample party funds spending public money on advertisements that leading members of its own party have criticized.